Wraith Armour Debuff

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by PokieZombie, Jun 15, 2014.

  1. PokieZombie

    PokieZombie New Member

    Current change of Wraith Armour Debuff from 0 to -5 to -10 max stacks off armour.

    Why is this change being made? There is no real way to handle ec nm muta wave except by sitting somewhere and tanking it, they are too fast to kite.

    It also has the effect of making the already marginally useful assault tank potentially useless. I would be keen to hear the reasoning behind this change.
  2. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    It was to give the Wraiths a more unique mechanic of their own since they are supposed to be relatively scarce. Can reduce their amounts further in EC Muta so that it becomes a more tactical choice to target those units down first - or tank rotate maybe. Have got the same input from Blaqk and will calibrate the numbers in next patch. Thanks.
  3. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    In all honesty? This change being made in the first place was fucking dumb, and added unnecessary stress; as far as I know, this change was never discussed and was simply implemented at the drop of a hat. I'd just remove it - it serves to do nothing but piss off players - you can't kite wraiths, they're too fast. You can't kite mutas, they're too fast, now you can't tank either of them because guess what? Now you're losing armor. Wraiths having both cloak and armor melting is bad design choice - I'd prefer one or the other of the two go.
  4. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    While i also think that getting -max to 10 is overkill, I find more issue in how debuff lasts 30s making it a guaranteed -10 pretty much.

    Asstank got no issues with this. For muta waves after erebos you are at least lvl 9, that means depending on how you assigned points between 17-19 points of armor with 'stacked' safeguard and c4. Debuff will get you to 7-9. What you need to not be damaged tanking slashers/mutas/wraiths is 14/8/5 respectively, taunt damage reduction aplies directly to enemy resulting in taunted slasher hitting your 7-9 armor do between 25 (3taunt/1lvl of armr in T1) and 41 (1taunt/3lvl armr in T1).

    Demo on the other hand, he totals 1(base)+4(spiked)+4(xs)+2(med)+2(cp)=13 shield armor in best circumstances [with momentary +7 from TTD as ttd multiplies only the base]. Debuff gets him to 3 [or 10 in TTD], while his taunt is stronger even WITH it active slashers/mutas/wraith need 8/5/3 respectively to do no dmg.
    Given demo is debuffed all the time coz it lasts 30 sec, outside of TTD muta hits for 5, slasher for 47, wraith 0anyway. Sure he got medic to refill his shields but before debuff was implemented he could tank muta waves on his own just like asstank did (and asstank still can short of slashers).
  5. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    - Number of Wraiths reduced in EC Dropship sequence (replaced by Gargoyles)
    - Corrosive Acid maximum stack reduced back from 10 to 5.

    Thanks - just got the feedback today and am calibrating. Let me know if it's still a major issue.

    Introduced the mechanic 3 weeks ago (http://notdstarcraft.com/threads/notd-change-log.17/#post-50600) and gradually tuned the details over several patches. Didn't make a post separately on it because it's not meant to be a major change (similar to many updates in Change Log). Intent is to encourage more tactical use of innate/item flares ahead of location and possibly Thermals to snipe high-threat units with a unique mechanic that could be a threat if not prioritized. Since Wraiths were relatively low number and mainly Veteran/Nightmare only, decided to use that unit for the mechanic. Can calibrate further if it's not the right unit for it (e.g. if Agron or Titan is a better unit for it) still after changes in latest patch. Thanks.
  6. EdowardoLMP

    EdowardoLMP Well-Known Member

    Wraith's Corrosive Acid = Hades's Corrosive Acid ? If so, wouldn't be better if wraith's should be a lesser version of hades's, say half duration/half effects/half chances ?

    Instead of number tweaking, why not apply with % hit chance of armor debuff just like certain ailments? A 100% hit on debuff for 30 sec sounds very brutal for light-med classes, additionally most of the classes can't even outrun flyer units.

    And also the % can be tweaked with difficulty as well. (E.g: Rec,Norm-20%/Hrd-40%/Vet-60%/NM-80%)
  7. Lolurisk

    Lolurisk Member

    BTW the corrosive acid appears to be able to damage players during the invincible phase after killing Perses in AC
  8. MissHumpz
    • Event Coordinator
    • Community Leader

    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

    I agree that -10 stacks of armour debuff is rather overkill.

    Perhaps instead of armour debuff change it to a movement speed debuff?

    Hindering someone's ability to escape and manoeuvre possesses just as much of a nuisance as armour debuff.
    • I'll drink to that! I'll drink to that! x 1
    • A+ A+ x 1
  9. PokieZombie

    PokieZombie New Member

    I have an idea that might work:

    -Decrease wraith frequency
    -Slightly increase wraith hp
    -Give wraiths evasion (say ~ 90%)
    -Either remove armor debuff or keep as is

    This would give an incentive to pick spell based dps (osok, prec shot, nades) to deal with wraiths as otherwise they will soak up a lot of ammo. Would be interested to hear other's thoughts.
  10. zXr.666
    • Donator

    zXr.666 Member

    I still don't find any of these 'solutions' to work except MissHumpz, the slow debbuff, frankly because trying to single out a single Wraith with any click skill when they are mixed in with a swarm of Garg's is like picking a needle out of a hay stack! I think that's the whole reason medic was given Restore 'as is' for a T3 was for when the group was covered and no *clicky* healing is possible.

    Tank rotating...not going to happen, Tank 1 Dies beacuse of Wraith Debuff, Tank 2 Dies to Wraith Debuff, *WIPE*, now if it were possible to actually rotate the full stream of aggro of all the mobs perfectly from one tank to the next before it died, like in an MMORPG...for the duration and amount of mobs hitting the tank, in AC for example, there would be 7 Order Flamers, and 1 Medic, oh wait Flamers can't taunt : \

    I Don't see this working out well...
  11. PokieZombie

    PokieZombie New Member

    Maybe double the model size so its easier to distinguish - they should be relatively low frequency with my idea (ie ~5 in ecnm muta wave)
  12. zXr.666
    • Donator

    zXr.666 Member

    I could see that working IF air units didn't stack on top of each other, making them bigger is just like having a flying agron moving and charging like a bat out of hell until it can be spotted. The cloak mechanic, and Ability's 'vision' it seems is for players to be more 'proactive' or about hold outs, by spamming flares to try and catch the Wraiths as they come in, but that's not the only issue with them, there's the times when the group is moving and Wraiths fly in from nowhere and pick off a marksmen or something else with high squish value, because of the current armor debuff.

    Being proactive, can only go so far with chaos of Nightmare level games, players are being forced to hybrid/FUBAR builds just to survive, and it takes longer just to complete the objectives if at all. It is also pretty much gg NM speed, with Veteran Players as well, if completion at all.
  13. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I am really not a fan of this debuff. Wraiths are already dangerous enough as it is because they're invisible and fairly durable for an air unit.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Rainbow Sticker Rainbow Sticker x 1
  14. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    - Corrosive Acid ability removed from Wraith. We will re-evaluate how we can bring this mechanic back to an appropriate unit in the future.
    - Wraiths no longer appear in Alpha Company ambient spawns in Recruit Mode
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • I'll drink to that! I'll drink to that! x 1
  15. Stereo
    • Development Team

    Stereo Paper Boy

    Give the debuff to banelings and beastlings perhaps?

Share This Page