Why our bosses encourage camping

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Blaqk, May 13, 2012.

  1. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    I'm fine to up the turn rate for some bosses if needed. The intent was to open up more non-tanking options of dealing with bosses. Any further thoughts?
  2. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    It definitely makes Zeus/Leto a complete joke of a fight. I don't think they should have a reduced turn rate, as they are an optional mission that a team can choose to do if they have some way to deal with aggro. Seth should have normal turn rate for the same reason.
  3. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator


    Moving to NOTD Discussion to get more feedback.
  4. Lightning
    • Donator

    Lightning Member

    why our boss encourage camping?

    boss is generally a figure that has 3 - 10X our hp / atk / movement.

    so running is a no go .

    now for the changes

    turn rate disable for the following

    seth - robot . ai , always cool
    ivax - SAB
    leto / zeus - beast, can turn and bite people at will
  5. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Something definitly has to be changed, i can face tank tart with psi ops by running in a circle around him. Not sure if increasing the turnrate so that he can keep up with someone is enough or another way has to be found, at this rate its making everything a joke.
  6. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Decrease =/= Nerf beyond the point of redundancy.
  7. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    the Problem i see is if you dont up it that far is that one player that is capable of running in a circle can tank them easily.
  8. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

    I hate huggers/cocoons more than anything in the game, stranglers to a lesser extent. They are the ultimate anti kite, troll death units. There would be no love loss from me if they were completely removed from the game.
    Short of removel how about
    -Reduce Hugger hp so you can dehug someone faster while kiting (like a strangler)
    -cocoons make them knifeable while hugged/less hp.
  9. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    From what I'm seeing and hearing, the turn rate decrease was too much, so up it again. I think the perfect world is a turn radius such that a slow classes can NOT out run, medium speed classes can out run him for a like 2-3 seconds at most, and super fast classes can dance them around for like 4-5 seconds. Not sure what the turn should be in order to accomplish that, but someone under 2.4 MS should never be able to out run the turn, 2.4-3.0 should be able to keep pace for a short time, maybe with sprint can get ahead, and 3.0+ should be able to last a few seconds longer.
  10. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Its funny cuz i still c ppl get eaten by tart and zues + leo
  11. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    uh... what?

    That's called kiting. It's just not running away from in a straight line and instead running parallel and very close to what you're kiting. This isn't an issue.

    What IS an issue, however, is that with medic support a demo can easily facetank tart without giving a shit. On NM with beastling spam.
  12. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    There is a difference between kiting a enemy and running around him in melee range in a circle because he cant turn fast enough to hit you ever.
  13. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    It's still kiting, it's just a different kind of kiting. And it most definitely is not face tanking, which was the more important point and is what we were trying to prevent in the first place.
  14. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Its not what you normaly mean when talking about face tanking (sitting in his face and just taking it), the only difference though is that you dont even take the dmg because he cant turn fast enough to attack you.
    I just dont see how it is better that every class can just run around him totally negating what is supposed to be a boss.

    And running around him is acually the hard way of doing it, you can do it even easier by moving in his back and when he tries to turn just move a bit and he will turn in the other direction and so on. While doing that you can even him in the back while "tanking" him.
  15. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Tanking, if you are to go by how the term is used, is the soaking up of damage so that others are not taking said damage.

    Kiting is the act of moving around in such a manner that you are maximizing damage dealt while minimizing damage taken.

    In this case, no damage is taken, so it would be proper to call it kiting.

    Tanking Example: Queen Fight in General. Most teams have an Protection Assault sit and take her attacks with the rest pouring the hurt onto her.

    Kiting Example: Old Cerebus. Vulnerable/Invulnerable Cycle, he chased whoever was closest, so one person would lead him around, while others shot at him, because he was slow enough that you could run away from him.

    Running around a boss in circles so that he cannot hit you is an example of Kiting, not tanking. At least, that is how I see it.
  16. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    I was calling it facetanking because you basicly still sit in melee range instead of the usuall way of kiting, running so he cant get near enough to hit you, which in my eyes is closer to tanking than kiting but i see why you prefer to call it kiting.

    Since i am the only one that seems to have a problem with tart being a complete joke anyway i will just stop trying to get it changed so we can stop debating if its kiting or tanking.
  17. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    I'd still persist that it is still a form of kiting, not tanking, but, as we all know, to each our own.

    Most bosses become a huge problem when it comes to not camping and killing them.

    Tartarus would gain hax speed over time, which you would have no ability to kite, and with his front taking drastically reduced damage, it would require someone to taunt him in one direction, while the rest of the team sits on the other side, shooting. If that is the case, why bother dealing with kiting, when sitting down and laying down hurt.

    Ignoring the fact that most bosses got fucked when their acceleration got reduced by a thousand-fold, that is.
  18. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    That was my short example of what i call kiting and why i think its closer to tanking than to kiting. Maybe i should have just called it abusing, but since its a wanted mechanic thats wrong too.
  19. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    - Tartarus and Zeus/Leto turn rate increased slightly in next patch

    To further incentivize kiting (taking more effort), am proposing changing Queen damage.
    Current: 90 damage (5 damage reduction per point of armor)
    Proposed: 70 damage (3 damage reduction per point of armor)

    Any violent objections?
  20. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Considering 20 armor:
    Currently that is 0 damage

    After change that is 10 damage.

    Add on top frenzy (+50%)

    Previously 35 damage
    Now 45

    So really a nerf vs higher armor classes (i.e. tanks).

    Now considering low armor of 5 (average):
    Previous: 65 damage
    Now: 55 damage

    Slight buff for low armor classes.

    So since frenzy made tanking considerably more difficult, this will make it even more difficult and quite likely impossible for Demolitions and extreme for Assaults.

    I think given the frenzy buff already being around, I'd rather not make the queen negate tanks even more.

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