Where are we going with recruit mode?

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by CHENZ, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. CHENZ

    CHENZ New Member

    I apologize for my long absence. I probably will be absent until at least July. Got a huge term paper coming up.

    However, i note with interest the discussions on the board. And specifically to the difficulty levels. I'm sure half or more than half of us come from the generation "when games were hard" and "nintendo hard" was a commonplace term we threw around.

    Unfortunately, times have changed, be it for better or worse. nowadays i see a majority of the games handholding the player through. Perhaps you'd require some skill for the more difficult parts, but nothing you'd have to scratch your head over and over again.

    in fact even SC2 has been tailored to meet the scrubbish crowd. how many of us have difficulty completing the missions, even on hard or brutal difficulties?

    in contrast we have NOTD, where a completely new player is bombarded with stuff they have to do. the average new player will not be familiar with hotkeys (how many ladder gamers you know use them effectively?) and will not be familiar with the mission, effectiveness of various guns etc etc. and we throw them into the thick of it, and expect them to learn on the fly, fully knowing it will take at least 5 games' worth of tries to understand the basic mechanics, never mind the intricacies of the map.

    I feel like recruit mode needs to be just that, a mode where there's lots of hand-holding, or lots of obvious tips and tricks, similar to the first three missions in campaign. I don't know much about coding, but i doubt you can add in a tutorial stage to the map. perhaps we should have a whole new mission or something for <500xps just so they become familiar with the guns and kiting and stuff.

    just throwing stuff out the top of my head. but from experience so many newbies either die or quit halfway, that most pubs end up being recruit modes played by vets, and that's really disheartening.
  2. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    I have a successor!

    to +1 this would be to +1 my self and feels too self serving. I shall thus just thank you. :p

    That said however, EC-Newbie mode has gone through a lot of changes during your absence.

    It actually is filled with quite a few handholding in it. Give it a try sir. Play with a 0 exp bank. We relatively high exp players do not see them because they are disabled from our vision/do not come up in our screens, but new players are subjected to a few tips/instructions in game.

    Whether they are effective, however, I am not sure. That takes some time to analyze. Font used, color, size, location on the screen, timing etc. :)
  3. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Well... I can say that it's more often that I see players in game asking followup questions to tips. Or that I don't have to mention basic things like the fact that they need to pick up ammunition or various weapons. So either the general public is getting smarter (Neat if they are, but those are long odds even Vegas won't cover typically), or the Tips are working.

    You could always try it out, and add onto my legacy by suggesting other tips that should be added in. I myself can't remember how many of the tips I suggested were implemented, and if the timing was implemented (For example talking about picking up non-gauss weapons at the Starport, or using Flamethrowers when Airlock triggers).
  4. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    When I have time to kill on breaks from school I play a pub an if first timers make it to or close to the end, I ask them if they want to learn more about the game, if they respond yes then after I win I invite them to a private game and show them the basics. The tour of the game itself takes a good 2.5 hours but it nice to see low xp player learn to kite and key locations on the map
  5. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Course if you don't have time, some random goobers wrote guides as well that people can read. Some of them even have fancy formatting and pictures. xD Sadly I'm usually reduced to just saying, "www.notdstarcraft.com/forum/index.php thar is a guide section there, check it."
  6. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    Don't forgot they have RAINBOW text
    But sometimes if I have don't have time I say google notd forums. I can only pray they do
  7. Hongbearr

    Hongbearr New Member

    I just did that in a pub. 1 dropped, 1 person has ~10k xp, 1 person has 65 xp, and 5 of us had 0 xp. I have to say I really liked the tip system, although I couldn't read some of them due to the fact that I was engaged in battle and about to be creamed.
  8. CHENZ

    CHENZ New Member

    that's exactly what i meant. tips are nice, but we're kinda expecting them to learn too fast. it's like teaching linear algebra and expecting quadratic functions the next week.

    i'd almost want to include an additional storyline like a cleanup crew (i mean, the epilogue DID say the ugc contained the infestation. would be nice to play a story where they did just that) which allow newbies to tinker around with the mechanics, learn and master the basics, yet not get overwhelmed into going "omgomgimgonnadie"

    remember "into the belly of the beast" in the campaign? remember how they taught, then gave you a very specific scenario in which each of the hero's abilities could be used? we need something like that.
  9. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    [video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SOQv4MJWak[/video]

    Vid gave me an idea for a tutorial mode. Maybe for NOTDSC2 HOTS.

    Play as or with (a more active) Ogilvy/Ivan in the beginning stages of the Infection.
    Demonstrating kiting, reloading, knife, kits etc. :p
  10. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    ^ I like this idea
  11. ProbeGst

    ProbeGst Well-Known Member

    A tutorial from ogy nice idea!
    People can learn to sprint and they play ogie!
    After this:
    Me: look I am ogy :D
    Me: How sad is this background Q.Q
  12. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    Maybe have up to 2 new players pick an option that says "oglivy and Ivan are retired war veterans, sharpen their skills with this exersise." and for the game 1 new player controls oglivy and the other controls Ivan, and while ec starts, they start at 3 random spots, which are where the houses are. They will wander around the map aimlessly until they are found by easy company, the main objective they will have are how to kite sprint equip weapons etc, and to find easy company. If they survive till the end the game will randomly select a unlocked class to give cp in, this mode will dissapear after the player is 1.5k exp.
    Oglivy stats:
    200 life
    2 life regen
    10 shields
    1 base armor
    starts with a crowbar
    A gauss rifle should spawn near him
    Can equip weapons
    Can equip armor
    Starts with 50 mags
    Max stack of alienment that are more than 1 is 5
    If hit a tip pops up and says to run back to the team.
    All tips added

    Ivan:
    Same as oglivy
    Note: if more than 2 players pick this campaign, the 3 lowest exp players get to have a chance, the 2 players are randomed
  13. Hades

    Hades Member

    I don't see how we are expecting people to learn too fast. it takes quite a while for people to farm out of recruit mode and into alpha.

    By the time they got alpha they got some games under the belt and can be taught more missions specific stuff.

    The difficulty progress is quite linear, you start off with easy comp, progress into alpha. Gain higher squadrating, progress into sec team and finally surv. By that time you should have near and around 30 games at least.

    Plenty of time to have been hand held or ask questions to improve tbh.
  14. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    You mean plenty of time to learn bad habits. Recruit mode teaches you that ammo is practically infinite, you only really have to be with the team during boss fights and the major waves, whoring items really doesn't make a difference, and infestors can be soloed for a lot of extra xp for the team.
  15. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    The Ogilvy/Ivan tutorial suggestion was made with removing recruit mode in its entirety where newbies will be learning the whole system from this tutorial idea. Or at least that's what I had in mind when I made this suggestion for HOTS NOTD.

    Recruit mode from what I observed in the past months and from what had just happened is not cutting it. Not only does it do a halfhearted job teaching players game mechanics, it also makes them used to a very easy difficulty level.

    Most of the important mechanics new players learn are hand me downs (as you had yourself mentioned: "questions") from the older players when it is not their job to teach. The current experienced players are players too and should not be under obligation to teach.

    Conversely, the new players should not have to depend on the older players to learn about the game.

    This is because by design, games should be able to teach the new players how to play the games.

    In my idea, new players will not be farming to alpha but farming to EC.
    The "farming" coming in the form of simply completing the tutorial once.

    And after that, they're in the real world and not a "trial world".

    The tutorial of course would have to be extensive. From kiting, knives, hexes, mission xp rewards, mission performance bonuses etc. Perhaps even a place to test out all talents of all classes so they have a preview of just what it is they would be unlocking in the future.

    This should also prevent nasty surprises such as MotM killing the team in the middle of a 1st time Apollo.

    What is my end goal here? To make normal mode (or what was called ec vet) the pub standard.

    Imagine an NOTD where all pubs are vets and all newbie come into the game without needing to learn that you need ammo to shoot. That it's possible to perfect reload, and that death is permanent.

    Optimistic, yes. But that's just me. :p
  16. CHENZ

    CHENZ New Member

    ah geez. i really need to patent my thoughts from now on. can't have every Lyanden stealing them from me *grumble*grumble*

    but yea. that's exactly what i said (or tried to say) at the start of the thread lol. =XXX
  17. Hades

    Hades Member

    I agree the recruit mode doesnt teach you everything. But as in notd:am the mechanics are still the same. easy games have easy mechanics such as no need to knife or conserving ammo.

    From past experience you can either make starting games so hard that pubs run into a brick wall at first. Or you make it the way it is at the moment and those who want to learn watch the higher xp (e.g) vets.

    This worked for me in notd:am when i was still a bootcamp noob and i dont see why it wouldn't work for our current batch of privates.

    Sure you can drop a 500 xp guy into a 1800 sr game and he will learn some stuff the hard way (e.g. bad habbits).

    im not saying this tutorial is a bad thing, but i know probably about 10% of the community gets to this forum let alone reads guides.

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