Votekick Thread

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Blue-Tiger, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. Blue-Tiger

    Blue-Tiger New Member

    What: change votekick-requirements back to only needing karma (Currently votekicking needs 1700+ rating and 10k+ XP. just repeating it here since some vets aren't even aware of that).

    Why:
    • Most pubgames (where -vk is most often needed, since kick-worthy people are usually not invited to private lobbies) don't have enough people to meet those requirements (10k+ people tend to play more in private lobbies).
    • People who have earned 1600 karma usually have enough experience with the game to know when someone is behaving like an ass and needs to be kicked.
    • Even vets sometimes fall below 1700 rating (e.g. because they farm surv too much), and then can't help to get rid of bad/unfair/trolling players in pubs (or even worse, private lobbies). I personally ran into that a few times already: Even in lobby games when you sometimes invite some of the "newer" players who turn out to be very bad teamplayers. If all complaints fall on deaf ears, but e.g. that darn mobrec just doesn't want to drop the RA and the HMG and whatever else he's hoarding, a votekick would be called for. However sometimes you just don't have enough players with you who can kick the bad guy. Thus the game is ruined for everyone.
    • Karma has no other "perks" associated with it. Getting the ability to votekick can be a small incentive to play "nicer" in order to gain some Karma. This incentive is now lost, and Karma serves no real purpose anymore.


    Impact on game:
    It will be easier for more experienced players to get rid of people who ruin games.
  2. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    See the thing with votekick is that some people think there are more people with 1600 karma and some that think there are more people with 10k xp and 1700 rating (usually people who fall into one category think there are more people with whichever one they have).

    If you're still having games with 2 people of 1600+ karma and not 10k xp and 1700 rating, I think it should be changed to EITHER 1600 karma OR 10k xp and 1700 rating.

    Everyone (I think) agrees that someone with either of those is experienced enough to know who deserves to be kicked and who doesn't, and it allows the same abilities to the very diverse playerbase of surv players, pub heroes, people with bad nuke aim, good newbies, etc.
  3. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    good karma has no effects. Bad karma has lots of effects.

    By the time you get 1600 karma, you'll likely be close to 10k anyway.

    If you can't keep a 1700 rating, you don't need to be votekicking anybody.

    1700/10k vs 1600 karma pretty much mean the same thing, and it's unlikely to change most players (I'd be fine under the "1700/10k and 1600 karma" requirement). A game where you need to vk someone is a game worth remaking. Pubs are almost always fails now because the game's so hard and nobody knows how to play.
  4. Blue-Tiger

    Blue-Tiger New Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    That's true, but you have to actively be an asshole to get bad karma. But there's no real incentive to be a "nice" player, instead of just an average one. Ie don't leave if you still have kitty, share mags, ...

    Inability to keep a 1700 rating has little to do with the ability to distinguish asshats from decent people. On the EU server, I could name a couple of very solid and good players who have a rating below 1700. YMMV, I don't know how it is on other servers.



    I personally have never met any good players with Karma below 1600, but several with <1700 rating. That said, I agree that "EITHER OR" would be a very good solution. I wasn't aware that people had problems keeping their 1600 karma.
  5. Klobber

    Klobber Well-Known Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    First off, if your playing a private game, everyone should be on the same page. If your recon is not dropping items he's not supposed to use then you rm without him. Vk-ing him will leave you with 1 less person, and quite frankly no one wants to micro an extra unit. So you would wanna rm anyways.

    As for public games, items like hmg and ra don't drop unless it turns out to be a vet game(which again vk-ing someone leaves you 1 short). So I don't see it a big deal if a newbie medic or recon takes hp or hk or w/e. Just play the game as if you haven't found hk or hp, you should still be able to win.

    I think the vk system is fine and shouldn't be changed. Less ppl having access to vk means less abuse of power. If anything, the karma and xp requirements should be raised. Leaving that option for higher experienced players that know when and why vk should be used.
  6. KatsuraJun

    KatsuraJun New Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    Agreed, though vking actually removes the unit completely. So you're stuck with 7 units and 7 players.

    I have no problem with the 1700 rating/10k exp OR 1600 Karma thing either. Both are easy enough to obtain if someone's moderately experienced with the game.

    I think his point was more than if you can't even maintain 1700 rating as a 10k+ exp player, then you probably can't distinguish the difference between "trollish" behavior and normal behavior when it's not painfully obvious. (For example, 10k exp 1500 rating Marksman calls a Combat Rifleman a troll for not giving him the Barrett.)

    1700 rating is not hard to maintain. I regularly suicide in the first 5 minutes in pubs to play as a predator and I still find myself inching over 1800 regularly. Which annoys me to no end - I like my extra lives damnit.
  7. Klobber

    Klobber Well-Known Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    Was thinking under the old vk system. Goes to show how many vk's I've done recently :p. But ya, even more reason to rm in private games rather than vk.
  8. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    Someone mind splitting this discussion into a new thread?
  9. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    You're all wrong.

    Votekick needs a total overhaul. Neither rating nor karma alone is adequate a system. The fact remains often in the matches where votekicks are most needed (public matches) 2 capable players are often not around. Instead, a single player (with appropriate prerequisites) should be able to innate the vote. Then all players in the match (alive or dead) except the "target" of the vote, each get a vote. Since the majority of matches are full houses, this makes the bulk of the potential votes a 7 vote pool. This allows for majority rules. If the vote comes to a tie, allow a slight delay before a re-vote. And lastly, add a max votekick attempts per minute, so players can't spam the text command to troll the lobby. As for my opinion on what prereq players need to initiate the kick, it should be lower, like 5k exp. However, players with high rating or high karma should gain access early, consider it a "good behavior" reward.

    There, I fixed a broken system.
  10. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    Not to mention the transition from 2k xp to 10k is not as boring if you get vk privileges at 5k.
  11. YetiSwarm
    • Donator

    YetiSwarm Member

    Nite's suggestion is great, but unfortunately things like this seem to be suggested every few months and nothing happens. The only change was when Mossy whined loudly and frequently enough to get his way so he could be free to team kill as often as he pleased. So let the whining campaign commence :)
  12. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    No thats me bringing it up every month or so. It's a broken system, anything short of total rework is a bandage on a severed leg.
  13. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    Or we could just ask ability directly to fix it, and see his response.
  14. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Been there done that.
  15. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Currently, AFAIK, its low priority item, right now people have been clamoring for far longer for revamped inventory system + bug fixes. From what I can gather, Pathfinder/Inventory/Bug Fixes/Demo rework are the priority of the day. Some terrain work + Subcomm rework are also on the docket. Vote kicking almost never happens, and the situations where it is needed are limited (pretty much any game outside pub won't use it, and pubs with trolls are not the majority of games from what I can tell, mostly just new people unaware that what they are doing is not team oriented or not the correct way to do/play X.
  16. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member



    In addition to NiteShade's suggestions of
    1. A qualified player being able to INITIATE a -vk
    2. All other players being able to vote themselves to achieve a majority vote

    I would like to add that the game be put on forced pause which may not be canceled until the VK process is done so that no accidental deaths can happen while players are typing/asking wtf happened for a vk to be warranted
    and to enforce that the vk be settled.

    There should probably be a limit put on Vks (amount and delay before a new one is made) in order that it not be used as an unlimited pause
  17. RiDdElOrE

    RiDdElOrE New Member

    i got to agree with some of you but disagree at the same time ...
    if a player is trolling too much or hording items like blue mentioned and is not showing cooperative at all or even worse trying to tk parts of the team:
    then dont hesitate to tk yourself whats the worst that can happen lose a bit xp and karma. but at least the game can go on and in such an as i call it emgergency the rest of the team will surely strenghten your back or even open fire as well.
    i know such problems should normally solved though arguing but: some ppl just are resistant and only game for their own satisfaction
  18. Nicarco
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Nicarco Warden

    The problem is that vking is supposed to solve the problem - How to remove a troublesome player without tking them. Losing karma and rating may not be a problem for most people, but a system that is supposed to replace that, is not working so people still prefer to tking the people instead, needs work.
  19. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Not to mention that TKing the problem can also lead to chain reactions. Someone will notice that you TKed thanks to the Red Box, big colorful message, and alarm noise. But they might not have noticed a guy was shooting you and it was a Him or Me moment. *shrug* It happens. You TK someone for TKing, then get TKed yourself because you TKed. This sort of chain reaction can wreck havoc on a team.
  20. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    Not to mention people building and holding grudges against whoever TKed them.

    Vengeance is less likely an option people take when a whole group decided it was time for you to go as opposed to a single player popping your head.:s

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