Updated : Broodmother + Titan Stats and Mechanic

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Peerawatz, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Peerawatz
    • Development Team

    Peerawatz NOTD Staff: Sound Mixer and NOTD Troll Chieftain

    This thread is to discuss changes regarding Broodmother/Titan stats and mechanics

    * = May be increased via difficulties
    Any stats not mentioned means they are the same as old unit.
    ========Broodmother=======
    -Unit Stats-
    HP* : 850 (Down from 1000)
    Energy* : 100
    Energy Regen : 5 per sec (Energy stops regenerating if under fire in last 5 seconds)
    Movespeed* : 1.8 but now has much lower ms increase while on creeps
    Target Priority : 10 (Down from 20)
    ---------------------------------------------------
    -Unit Weapons : Mother's Talons-
    Base Damage : 35x2 (from 90x2) , no bonus against anything
    Armor reduction : 2 per point (from 5)
    Range : 1.75 (from 2)
    Attack Speed : 1.75 (from 1.5)
    ---------------------------------------------------
    -Unit Abilities-
    Ability : Transfusion
    Energy Cost : 25
    Cooldown : 6
    Range* : 10
    Effects* : Heals a target, instantly restoring 200 hp, and another 250 hp over 5 seconds (to a total of 550 if not damaged further)
    Conditions* : Target must have at least 350+ max hp, and must have at least 60% hp left.
    -------------------------------------------
    Ability : Command Aura (Passive)
    Range* : 6
    Effects* : Allied zombie units gain +2 armor and moves 10% faster under the presence of their sexy cheerleaders.
    -------------------------------------------
    Notes : Since Broodmother now serves a support role unit, she should appear as regular spawns more often, and no longer spawns as groups of elite squads that the game really love to do so.

    ----------------------------------
    Titans

    -Unit Stats-
    Energy : 75
    Energy Regen : 2.5
    Energy Regen when on creeps : +3
    Weapons : Titan's Smash
    Damage : 60 (Pure damage, not reduced by armor points)
    AOE Radius : 2 (90 radius cone)
    Attack Speed : 1.45
    Range : 1.75 (from 1.5)
    ========================================================
    Abilities :
    - Hurl Boulders -
    Damage* : 100
    AOE* : 2
    Cooldown : 14
    Energy : 50
    Effects : Hurl a slow moving boulder at target locating, dealing damage to anything (friends or foe) and push them 1 range away from impact location.

    - Rage of the Titans - Passive
    Effects : Titan loses all armor and it's hp start degenerating on it's own but gains increased attack and movement speed by 20?%
    Condition : HP is lower than 30%


    All values are temporary, members are encouraged to help discuss balancing the values. Failure to cooperate will result in Hades getting Drone model for 2 days (Hah)
  2. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    RE: Broodmother + Titan Stats and Mechanic Reworks

    Hm I would say attack 10% faster rather than move 10% faster because otherwise the zombies just all overtake the BM and no longer benefit. Also ensure that the aura does not affect BM itself and BMs around it. Aura effects should remain same regardless of difficulty.

    CD 6 on Transfuse is probs a bit too high. Make it 4. Heal scaling is fine, can be done as a spell buff to unit to reduce coding.

    Range ought to remain as is on aura and abilities (not influenced by SR). Would increase command range to 7 though.

    BMs to remain at 1 armor? What about armor class? Suggest Light - Bio - Psi
  3. Shooz
    • Donator

    Shooz NOTD Staff: Killjoy

    RE: Broodmother + Titan Stats and Mechanic Reworks

    Medium armor seems to fit the BM better than light.
  4. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    RE: Broodmother + Titan Stats and Mechanic Reworks

    There is no medium.
    Available are:
    Armored Light Massive Heroic Psionic Biological Mechanical Structure
  5. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    RE: Broodmother + Titan Stats and Mechanic Reworks

    Give it Biological, Psionic.

    To be honest, I would look at it in the idea that "Light" would mean it has some armoring, but not a lot, "Armored" would mean it has significant amounts of armor, while having neither listing means that it has no armor.

    Unfortunately, the way it is set up, giving it no listing would be best for it in terms of armor.
  6. Peerawatz
    • Development Team

    Peerawatz NOTD Staff: Sound Mixer and NOTD Troll Chieftain

    RE: Broodmother + Titan Stats and Mechanic Reworks

    In terms of SC2 senses, having no Light/Armored tags mean the unit has no weakness (resulting it not taking any bonus or reduced damage against any attack types), this in gameplay means the unit is very strong (As no types of attacks are specially effective against them, nor ineffective).
  7. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    I understand that part.

    Which is why I would increase the base damage of weapons if they would affect unarmored units, while having light / armored penalizing damage accordingly.

    Having Biological and Psionic means the Pulse and Flamethrower are effective weapons, while the gauss rifle, not so much. HK, Shotgun, I don't recall how they would be affected, if they would be affected.

    Though, the way vanilla SC2 is, No listing is used to describe Medium (Refer to Hydralisk).

    At least its not that nuisance of Concussive / Normal / Explosive, With Small / Medium / Large that SC1 had.
  8. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Hydralisk is Light Bio
  9. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I'm a fan of everything present.
  10. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Well, shit, wrong example in mind then.

    I guess I meant something like these units:

    Ghost
    Spectre
    Queen
    Baneling
    Archon

    None of them are classified as Light, or Armored, kinda like how the hulk is only Biological.

    Either way, it doesn't have to be Light or Armored, it can exist as neither and be just fine.
  11. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    They are all psionic instead of light and archon has massive psi not even bio.

    Primarily it is a balance decision and our hulks are only bio because noone complained yet (I complained about the otheers - we used to have most creeps just bio). But reason I haven't is that Hulks with high armor should encourage flamer and flamer has penalty vs armored. Its not supposed to be taken down by m5,smg and hk. So no lght/armored/massive.

    In a perfect world, hulk should be bio-armored
  12. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    What Ghost is trying to say is we should just choose classifications for the enemies based on what should be the best weapon for them.

    Less on the fluff, more on the function.

    For example are the hulks as he mentioned.

    They are not ARMORED because Gauss/UA and other anti "Armored class" enemies should not have bonuses against hulks and also because
    Flamers (which do bonus vs BIO) SHOULD be good against them.

    They are not light either as that would make SMGs effective vs hulks.

    Why? Because the intent game design wise is to drive the message home in easy company that some guns are better than others for specific enemies.


    ============================================================================

    Players should forget the image that Light, Biological, Armored, Psionic, Massive refer to "how/what the enemies are".
    Again, these are only properties that makes some guns good or bad against them.

    ARMORED does not mean the target has a lot of armor.
    I am emphasizing this because I have seen players say

    "Hulks are obviously armored because they have 11 armor, of course I would use gauss on them"

    A stalker is considered "ARMORED" but only has 3 armor.
    A hulk is considered "BIOLOGICAL" only but has 11 armor.

    Armor type only refers to what does bonus damage or less damage vs the unit, nothing more. Armor amount/value is a completely different thing. Unit visual size also does not have to coincide with being massive.

    That said, someone needs to make a guide on this.

    ============================================================================

    So again for these 2, what do the people privy to these think should be the most effective means to kill them (abilities aside)?

    Personally, Armored, Biological and Light for the broodmothers.

    I think they shouldn't be tough at all as they already have a lower target priority + are capable of healing things + speed aura
    (if that buff area gets included, which by the way I vote in favor of the movespeed rather than attackspeed. This helps make sure that the rank and file/tanks are in front of it, Broodmothers need to be at the rear. Also if the BM's get close to the players and they are not targeted manually, things will be approaching players at charge speed)
  13. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I would opt against making some both light as well as armored as our weapons usually give bonus to one and malus to the other (i.e. sniper rifle).

    Another example to your list is Erebos with 12 armor and being classed light. Its really counterintuitive but its what makes sniper and flamer effective against it (admittedly SMG is great too in NM because he has negative armor due to Rampage)

    Anyway, like I said, Broods are IMO Light Bio Psi - it gives additional use to M5 which is fairly underused and means you can't as efficiently slaughter the mobs using the same weapon as you are using vs the support unit. Players still will do it, but it encourages 1-2 people in the team to focus certain enemies over others.
  14. Miracle
    • Development Team
    • Community Leader

    Miracle NOTD Staff: Assistant of many things

    How about a revamp of all the weapons available in NOTD so armour can be applied in a more logical sense, such as Hulks having armoured and Titan having massive (since they are gigantic)?
  15. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Titans should have massive actually, I think that's an oversight. (no weapons have penalty vs massive and weapons which have bonus vs massive usually have bonus vs armored, but titan isn't armored, so it won't double buff weapons against it)
    Admittedly some skills would be more effective against Titans, but currently Titans do take very long to dps down and usually its the OSOK that does it. So making it vulnerable to more than just osok is IMO a good thing.
  16. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    For Lacus' suggestion, it sounds good, it will take time. I actually want sniper rifles to have a bonus against psionic because

    1. what better way to counter infested marines (gun totting zombies) than with a longer ranged weapon and
    2. i think only the m5 has bonus vs psionic. perhaps we could use another?

    Back to the topic at hand however

    In relation to the Titan update, yeah, I would go with Massive added to it. Perhaps even Biological as I doubt anyone would use a flamer on it. Those that will had better have a proper support unit behind it (tank/disables from team) which I would reward with a faster titan kill.
  17. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    SMG and M5 both are good vs Psionic.
  18. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    Ah. was that a ninja update at some point? I don't remember discussions on making it an anti psionic weapon.

    Also, can we have a poll for the Titans + Brood mothers' unit types? Might make it easier to get opinions from the other BOs that way.
  19. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    It has been since 2011, but that's kind of off topic and Shooz' wrath is terrible.

    Also, I would like to think that Black Ops are sufficiently active (and argumentative) to post to make their opinions known and don't have to sneakily click to poll.
  20. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Far as unit types go, I'd give the Brood Mother Light, Psionic. Massive is a toss up. I can see arguments for it either way, but I don't think that it's necessary, really. And "lack of a good reason" is good enough reason for me to consider it off the tables. Biological is included because, obviously, living creature and if someone wants to go Flamethrower it, more power to them.

    Now I say Light and Psionic for a few reasons, and here are my thoughts on it:

    1) Other than the M5 Pulse Rifle, most "power weapons" that a character wants to use all game will have no bonus against the Brood Mothers that way, requiring skill use or weapon switching to snipe them out of a horde effectively. Either way, sounds like a good idea in my book rather than just Barretting them down or HKing all over the place.

    2) The only common spawn that they would really have a reason to be included with (Due to it being the only thing I could think of their Transfuse working for) would be Agrons, which are Armored, Massive. (Well Brain Bugs aren't a common spawn, bosses don't count, Parrots and Titans aren't common. Slasher's aren't common) So again, having something that is different in type from what they would normally accompany makes it less likely to just spray Gauss Rounds all over the place without care.

    3) Those types play into the hands of the more Micro Focused weapons (M5, SMG, M45, Pistol, etc) over the more spray and pray ones like HK, HMG, etc. And it's just more rewarding when you're using your SMG to armor melt to pick off targets that your SMG is good against and are priorities comparatively.


    Probably things I haven't considered. But I consider that a good list to start with and just the ideas that jumped up into my mind immediately. And when we do do polls, I usually also post my thoughts anyway. :p

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