The Pathfinder and Coming In Hot

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Kith, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I've come to the conclusion that the Pathy needs a nerf. I've been sitting on this for a long time because I've seen the supposedly "all-powerful" Pathfinder die again and again because someone stopped paying attention for only a couple seconds, despite the massive grace periods available to them after completing an Assault Jump. The Pathfinder has always been supposed to be entirely skill oriented, and even though most players die horribly, it's become apparent to me after these months of testing and feedback that good players are simply too powerful with him because of that stun. That said,

    Proposed changes:
    Assault Jump: Change evasion duration from 1/1.5/2 to 1/2/3
    Coming In Hot: Remove stun effect. Replace with a Movement/Attack speed slow of 30/60% that lasts for 2/3 seconds.

    I'd also like to see the +2 innate pistol range be moved to an additional +1 range per level in Handgun Expertise, to make non-gunslinger Pathfinders more interested in other weapons rather than sticking with the pistol for the entire game.
  2. Shooz
    • Donator

    Shooz NOTD Staff: Killjoy

    Everything in this post, Yes.
  3. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member



    Would suggest changing the evasion to a flat 90% for levels 1-3 though as having a 90% evasion rate for 1-3 seconds is only truly useful as a means to either stay near targets to jump again (at level 3) or run away (at all levels) if stun is replaced with slow.

    Also, while it may seem like it's all nerf, it's actually a buff in situations when you do not want a tank w/o taunt (mod tech) losing agro after a pathy jumps in with a stun.

    Replacing stun with slows however should work as a better deterrent to the rambo mentality (as jumps w/ stuns does allow a pathfinder to face all things alone with impunity) because skilled jumpers are able to do just that.
  4. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    I realized no one made a post of Pathy's evasion bugs on his jumps.
    Not sure if intentional, but Tier 3 Uber Jump does not grant evasion.
    Use it on a dangerous mob and die instantly.

    Assault Jump on the other hand does grant evasion and is actually much safer,
    although you jump into a group of banes and you will die instantly too. No evasion there!
  5. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    No Quarter

    The Pathfinder ascends high into the sky, and comes slamming down with unparalleled force, dealing massive amounts of damage. If the Pathfinder lands directly on top of a foe, his Emergency Savior System activates, granting him brief invulnerability. Deals triple damage to bosses. 40 energy cost, 1.5 minute cooldown, 12 range.

    Level 1 – 1,000 damage within a radius of 2, 800 damage within a radius of 4, 600 damage within a radius of 6, 400 damage within a radius of 8. If an enemy is struck with the 1,000 damage marker, the Pathfinder becomes invulnerable for 4 seconds.

    Note: There is a large probability that whatever unit you use No Quarter on will at least hit you once before hand. Use with caution.
  6. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    Lyanden, more like 0 seconds of invulnerability and yes
    shit can hit you even before you reach there to jump.

    It says there's 4 seconds of invulnerability, but in-game there is none at any time.
    The assault jump's invuln works tho.
  7. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    Will the pathfinder keep the DoT that comes with the stun?

    Also, if the invulnerability doesn't work as intended, maybe have it give 90-100% evasion.
  8. Shooz
    • Donator

    Shooz NOTD Staff: Killjoy

    The idea isn't to make the Pathfinder equally as easy to play as before without the stun.

    The idea is to make the pathfinder more balanced for the later story line he belongs to and detract from the Rambo jump mentality.

    100% evasion would be too easy for people. The evasion rate is fine and works I've tested it. The invulnerability also works and I've tested that as well. If you have an issue with it, you're doing it wrong.
  9. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    That invulnerability only activates when you land directly on an enemy, dealing the full dealing the 1k damage. If you don't land directly on an enemy you don't get the invulnerability.
  10. Shooz
    • Donator

    Shooz NOTD Staff: Killjoy

    Yep. Also, not sure how many times it has to be stated.
  11. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    I guess we'll just leave this bit of derpery from me here incase others have the same question.

    But yes, the numbers for this are lookin' pretty good.
    Its a go from me.
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    What Froblock is talking about is the invuln during the jump itself, in which Pathy is ascending to the heavens. There's supposed to be invuln there, there's always supposed to have been invuln there, it's not there because it's a bug and/or it wasn't added because there's a whole lot of shit going in at any given time. The invuln granted when he lands is only supposed to happen if he hits something directly.
  13. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    - Coming In Hot Stun bonus to Assault Jump changed to Disorient. This reduces affected unit's attack/movement speed by 30/60% for 2/3 seconds. (Kithrixx)
    - Assault Jump's Evasion duration increased from 1/1.5/2 to 1/2/3 seconds. (Kithrixx)
    - Pathfinder's innate +2 Pistol Range bonus removed. Range bonus from each point in Handgun Expertise/Invaders Must Die increased from +2 to +3. (Kithrixx)

    Agreed with Opening Post. This should be live in next patch. Only minor difference is that I've also upped the range bonus for Invaders Must Die so that the trigger programming is less complex (+3 constant) instead of (+3/+3/+2 with different permutations).

    Moving to NOTD Discussion.
  14. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    Can you also look into fixing Pathy Tier 3 Jump?
    When you are ascending or in mid-jump, you are not invulnerable.
    So you can die before your Tier 3 hits the ground. Die in mid air.

  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    There's invuln during the Assault Jump and there should also be invuln present when Pathy's going for No Quarter. If you're worried that it's too large of a window, my suggestion would be to change the unit type to "Flying" during the windup so Infested Marines can still shoot the Pathfinder full of holes but people no longer die to zombie punches while they're 50 feet in the air.

    That's what I meant originally. Sorry that wasn't immediately clear.
  16. Blaze

    Blaze New Member

    wait cant queen hit air?
  17. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

  18. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    Why would you not make it invulnerable when using the Ulti? (Ascending)

    That makes Pathy's Tier 3 useless when u want to damage Bosses. Most bosses hit both ground and air... So the pathy just sits idle and does nothing the whole fight, maybe besides assault jumping once in a while.

    **Before it lands it will be vulnerable to any attack. I have been slain by GoTB during the execution of the move before i even landed it. Basically atm anything can hit you on your way up as if you were on the ground. Seeing as the Pathfinder is relatively squishy with about 110 shield and 70 hp, ulti-jumping into a group of maybe 8 zombies at melee range, they can all potentially get a hit on you and kill you before u land.

    Which leads to our main question: What are the exact limitations we want on Pathy's Tier 3 Jump?
    We are kind of in a mess with patch updates and bugs right now, but our confused stance on Pathy's Tier 3 Jump makes him a big question mark as to what the correct play style is instead of playing like the bugs are an intentional mechanic of his jump which everyone believed to be true and call me dumb as shown in the Bug Reports until Kithrixx has responded to my question, bringing to light that no invuln on tier 3 during the jump/in mid-air is wrong. And yes invuln is only granted on a direct hit for evasion/after the jump.
  19. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Just remove invulnerability from AFTER the jump, and a 90% evasion in 5 radius of epicenter.. and also, wasn't the stun for Jump Tier 1 from CiH meant to be chained with No Quarter? It's what I always did. Jump Jump NQ Jump gtfo
  20. ImaDomo
    • Donator

    ImaDomo Clad In Armour

    Lol, since no stun now for pathy, guess no jumping Gotb anymore

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