The Marksman Solution

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Kith, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    [align=center]The Marksman Solution
    Some kind of New Age Voodoo Curse[/align]

    This is something that we decided on doing in May. However, apparently everybody completely forgot because a specific topic wasn't made outlining everything because we couldn't be assed to leaf through a thread and find what we decided on doing. I am now doing science to correct this issue.

    Innates and Starting Skills
    Assassination
    Subtlety
    The current OSOK troubles were not meant to happen. They were supposed to go hand-in-hand with the rest of these changes. They didn't, because a lot of stuff went down and we didn't get around to it. Therefore, I'm issuing a public apology to those who have been screaming at me for "intentionally fucking up marksman", even though some half-baked changes were never what I intended to happen. That's not a dig at Ability either; sometimes things happen and you can't really avoid abandoning what you're doing to handle something else. It happens.

    All I'm saying is that we're working on getting it fixed up and finished up to make NOTD a better game. Please stop the shit-slinging. It got old six months ago.
  2. Gattu

    Gattu Well-Known Member

    Can quick aim still be innate like the rifle man and focus fire?
    Like 200% attack speed for 3 seconds instead.

    Main reason is for me, i use it defensively as well to clear a few light mobs charging at me.
  3. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Well the Assassin does have Monofiliment for Mob Removal. So I don't know that he really needs Quick Aim. The Subtlety Marksman DEFINITELY needs Quick Aim, no doubt. So it has to be available to a SubMM as that's just how it works. But the Assassin doesn't really NEED it as it has light enemy removal in Mono. And one can argue that it's role is priority kills, not anti group work.

    The scope as an innate though dovetails nicely with both classes. So it makes sense as an innate. Longer range to plan OSOKs and Monos appropriately. The wallhack vision a SubMM needs for scouting and evading.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    ArcturusV put it pretty well; Assassination has Mono to handle approaching enemies.
  5. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Make concentration proc off of monofilament too. Looks great otherwise, as I've said before.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Why yes, I would love to buff Mono, why do you ask?

    The only problem is that I fear it may lead to the issue of burning through Concentration stacks too quickly.
  7. SkullCapp

    SkullCapp Well-Known Member

    Will OSOK still deal % of enemy's health? As 1.5 or 2 plus 1.5 or 2 (0.6) plus 1.5 or 2 (0.6)...
    Or will OSOK goes back to 800 damage? As 800 plus 800(0.60) plus 800 (0.6) plus 800(0.6)...
  8. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    It will still deal a percentage of the target's health after the base amount has been applied, assuming you have Master Marksman and a Concentration stack to burn. If you do not have a Concentration stack, then OSOK does not deal bonus percentage damage (but it does still instantly kill non-heroic targets if you have Master Marksman).
  9. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Same concern here. If used for mob control, you probably will burn every concentration point in 3 mono's. If used for single target, you have little control over how many stacks you lose (Monos boss, hits mobs behind, loses all stacks, OSOK can't do crap, fail). Moreover, Mono (at least here in SC2) was never intended to be a killing spell except for the weakest of enemies, the stun is far more powerful.
  10. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Unless there was some way to code Monofiliment so that it only burned a Concentration Stack per use, rather than per hit. This means if you swing and miss due to something like that Combat Rifleman being a hair faster on his grenade to the Blindling Siege Train than you are with your Cartridge, you'd burn a stack for nothing. But a better option than hitting 15 enemies with it and losing all your Concentration.
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Like AP said, Mono is used mostly for stunning rather for damage in this NOTD (which drives me totally bonkers but that's a story for another time), and the way that Concentration interacts with it could lead to some really silly stuff code-wise that I don't wanna see happen. I'd feel more comfortable maintaining Mono as something that could be used without burning Concentration stacks, as having something that can be used in such a manner is really, really useful. Back when New Pulse was implemented and Concentration didn't function with it, it was actually the new "favorite weapon" of a lot of SubMMs because they could get away with attacking and not expending stacks.

    Having an out in the form of Mono (which deals decent damage but requires skillful positioning) actually adds another layer of skill to the whole ordeal, because now this means that careful AMMs will be able to still contribute in combat with Mono shots without using up all of their Concentration stacks.
  12. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

    I like idea of innate scope. Been thinking that myself for a while now.
    This seems like it’s going to need some testing. 500% Bar or Shotty speed might be kind of ridiculous.
    Also, 1 hit kill for T3 should require 1 stack of concentration imo.
  13. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I second the Concentration Use for One Shotting.

    Also maybe a Biological check on the one shotting. Somehow it just seems weird to me that you can one shot Dome D or Mech units with what is effectively a "Shot to the heart" sort of skill.
  14. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Do keep in mind Commando's adrenaline pumps up to 475% at level 3.

    I don't see a problem with QA being 500% increased, because unlike the commando, Marksman doesn't have a way to get major +% damage, and the duration is significantly shorter (despite the commando having to charge up adrenaline.)
  15. Blaze

    Blaze New Member

    and i know someones gonna bring up barr/shotty being op with this but they take 3/2 ammo respectively so it balances there
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The SubMM does have Critical Strike/Master of Subtlety, but that's not nearly as powerful as Surgical Strike/Adren. Not unlike the Arms Assault, the SubMM has to devote an entire tree to doing something the Commando is capable of doing with two maxed out Tier 1 skills.

    I don't forsee any problems in terms of DPS disparity.

    I don't really want to make OSOK's instakill effect Concentration-reliant. We're already capping its clearing capacity with the cooldown, it doesn't need to be capped more.
  17. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Mono =
    Lvl1 60
    Lvl2 180
    Lvl 3 300

    D:

    + lvl 3 stun 4 sec
    +lvl 3 causes 1 stack open wounds

    D:
  18. LftHnddSczrs

    LftHnddSczrs Member

    As someone who loves playing MM (it's pretty much all I played before 10k), I think the scope does not need the detection buff. One of the advantages of the MM over other light classes is that they still have 3 mod slots (besides the Rofl). During certain parts of the game, they have to sacrifice one of their ammo mods for a thermal, or they have to strategize in advance and get perception or flares. With the changes to stats giving each stat 2 clear bonuses, giving the mm detection already would cut the bonus of perception in half, and I think it would make fewer MM go for perception as their second skill after intelligence. It would make MM easier to play, especially in NM where the invisible stuff charges and you don't have time to switch to thermals or you wanted better reload with agility, but I also think that takes away part of the strategy of how each person wants to play the MM class.

    A question I have though, will crits still apply to OSOKs? (I think the current number is 1.5x) I couldn't tell from the post. If they still are intended to affect OSOK in the late game, I think perhaps the solution is to either nerf the scope detection ability somehow or remove it, or to give the marksman only 2 mod slots like the med, recon, mando, psi ops, fo, and pathy. If I understand the changes with the concentration proc on OSOK right, you shouldnt need 3 ammo mods. Thats a whole nother story though and this is already a long post.

    EDIT: Sorry after re-reading it, I realized that I forgot to say that overall I love the tree changes and I cant wait for them to be implemented. If it were an ebay purchase I'd give it an A ++++ instead of A ++++++++ would buy again
  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    This is a "rework the Marksman" thread, not "buff the Marksman" thread. You'll be able to go supermono in NOTD2.

    I'm just keeping it as the original skill was. And you have to take into account the Marksman is slow, with no durability to account for it.

    Nope.

    I don't mind long posts, and those who do can get over themselves.

    Hahahaha, thank you. Wasn't entirely my doing, though. I had quite a bit of help on this one.
  20. grandmarshal

    grandmarshal New Member

    Hmmm...i like the new update. more balance play.

    How about calling the innate ability of MM something like optical implant.

    it may sound weird to you but having to look into a scope 24/7 just to move forward will give you "cock eye".

    similiar to why night vision in modern warfare is in the form of a goggles rather than in a scope form, no man will be able to stare in a scope for long periods without tiring out or getting cock eye.

    the advanced medical of that time allows Marksmen to be implanted with advanced optical that gives long range vision as where as Infrared and night vision mode.

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