The Mages And The Attackers

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by ozzy, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    Mages are weaker than the physical damagers

    The nuclear missile is not on a mage class but is the best area magic damage in the game

    assassination marksman should be the best single target damage caster
    the boss dps of assassination marksman is not as good as it should be
    monofilament charge is not very useful because it costs a lot of energy
    one shot one kill costs too much energy for a two second cooldown ability
    he runs out of energy easily and does not do as good as stinger subtlety marksman or other long range weapon shooters

    pyro flamethrower should be a close combat waveclear caster
    he has energy problems by using burst fire a lot
    pyro flamethrower should have higher damage than order flamethrower with the sacrifice of survivability and crowd control
    his waveclear is a lot worse than operations commandr and most other 590a5 shotgun users
    burn is also too weak for a static channel ability because it has lower dps against bosses than smite
    inferno is a lot weaker waveclear and single target damage than nuclear missile

    nano tech medic should be a damage over time single and multi target caster
    she can not rival any weapons dps in sustained damage on a single target
    the nano shock is not very damaging and is only useful for the stun which is a very small area
    volatile injection is not as good as rifleman grenade because it is delayed explosion
    nano sear is not good enough damage over time compared to arms assault or any critical striker

    delta commandr should be a crowd control multi target disabler
    he has very bad energy efficiency because low energy regeneration on the class
    heightened senses is not anywhere close to the damage to adrenaline or surgical strike
    bring them down is not as good as harvester of sorrow or frenzy on assault
    gravity grenade and monofilament traps cost a lot of energy to use and do not have large effect areas so they are not the best disables or waveclear
    horror blinding grenade is not powerful because it is too easy to blind allies and many bosses can be facetanked so resetting their aggro could be a bad thing

    explosives demolitions should be a burst damage multi target and crowd control caster
    the mines are a very weak ability for the amount of energy it takes to create mines
    satchel is like a delayed rifleman grenade which is hard to land and not as good waveclear as the 590a5 shotgun users
    fire vulnerability is a good support ability but requires a weapon dps
    armageddon is not as good waveclear as nuclear missile and is similar to inferno

    rocketeer pathfinder should be a mobile waveclear caster
    he has ok waveclear on zombies but relies on evasion and needs to not get bodyblocked
    if he wants to compete with the waveclear of 590a5 shotgun then the assault jump area needs to be bigger about 20%
    the ultimate ability does not make pathfinder invulnerable in midair so it can not be used to jump into banelings or cancel hugger animations or dodge enemy auto attacks and is not very good damage or utility because of that

    fire support forward observer should be a ranged waveclear caster
    fire mission is not powerful enough compared to what the 590a5 shotgun can do against swarms
    the airstrike is usually inaccurate and not powerful enough against a line of enemies
    if airstrike was a targetted ability or has a smaller radius it could be good for single target bombardment if it did some more damage like 10 strikes of 900 damage in a radius of 2
    stun shells are inaccurate but they can be a lot better with a small accuracy increase
    napalm is not as good burst as nuclear missile but has sustained damage and crowd control slows
    napalm has the bug to teleport to near high ground which can destroy allies easily
    napalm should replace fire mission and nuclear missile can replace napalm so operations commandr can get a more balanced ultimate

    desolator chemical expert should be a crowd control waveclear caster
    contaminate and desolation are not good enough waveclear compared to what the 590a5 shotgun can do in close combat
    venom slows are not as good as many other slows
    homing missile is one of the weakest abilities in the game
    desolator does not do good enough against agrons in the early game
    scorched earth is a delayed cluster missile which can easily destroy allies because of the casting delay and is not as good as nuclear missile because of the shorter range and smaller radius

    field support engineer should be a crowd controller, disabler and minion user
    all his abilities are undertuned
    field probe is not very useful because many weapons penetrate armor and the range of shock is not long enough for the slow to be useful because it is a single target slow with up to three usages
    plasma discharge is like a delayed grenade that has crowd control but the delay is too long for it to be as useful as the rifleman grenade
    disruption tower has too low damage numbers to be useful
    energy battery is below average energy sharing ability
    field nexus mind controlled enemies do not do noticeable damage and can still spawn enemy parasites at death

    telepathy psi ops should be a crowd control and waveclear caster
    mind ravage is not good enough compared to the waveclear of 590a5 shotgun on a weapon dps
    ravaging phantom could be good if it did not require the psi ops to last hit the targets but required anybody on the team to get the kill
    foresight is similar to heightened senses but could have a little increase in numbers
    psionic tempest could use some damage increase to be a more balanced ultimate

    Most of the waveclear mages are out of the meta because they are weaker than the rifleman assault marksman and commandr using the 590a5 shotgun
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  2. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    mages are supposed to be good damagers or supports without the need of ammo
  3. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

  4. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    it is magic damage also known as spell damage
  5. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    Ozzy you play too much with stank, so you dont know how broken op those whore classes can be.

    Mono whore, burst whore flame, jumper/hybrid slinger, fo arty, deso chem, zoo engi and sex ops can overwhore and let mando underlevel but you need to buy good items and build good.

    Problem is when its boss fight time, those little whores cant do nothing at all, thats why we dont pick them. Cause mando / assman / smm can do the whoring and melting.

    But ur right about explo demo and nano med, they are totally useless. Medic is literally parasite class with injection. Demo is like kid with firecrackers, he can only hurt himself or other kids in the playground.
  6. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    which is why skills like one shot one kill, burn, airstrike and nano sear should be enough dps to rival the arms assault against bosses

    commandr is a burst cycle damager so he should keep the highest dps but it is only for every 15/30 seconds

    mages should do high damage to bosses within damage over time or single target burst damage on the scale of burn ramping up to 1500 dps or nano sear with 40000 damage over 60 seconds and airstrike with 10 bombs of 900 damage in a small radius and high frequency

    if they can not do nothing, then they can do something

    but having good waveclear does not mean you can just one shot a lot of low health zombies
    it also requires the hero to be good at clearing high health and armored zombies like in the start of alpha company
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  7. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    I think pathfinder is viable on every campaign except security team

    it would be better if assault jump did 3000 damage to heroics and his ultimate was increased to do 20% of a heroic target's max health
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  8. stanK

    stanK Member

    Ah, amm used to be OP vs bosses, but was brutally nerfed.

    As for other stuff... hard to comment on. I judge classes by what they do for the game I'm playing. For example:

    -- RANT BEGINS --
    FO whores fine, blocking DPS from moving out. Then boss wipes team cos DPS are underleveled or not-even-picked, while FO was busy faping to NOTD2 concept art after typing "k guys kill boss, goin afk 5 mins".

    So what happens if we take nuke away from commando and make FO arty even more crazy? Most likely there will be simply more tears when i shoot FO in the face at the start of the game. Cos it doesn't change the fact that mando still has to kill the boss, while FO just faps.

    Mando: micro heavily, buy weapons, rely on teamwork with tank and spend whatever is left of attention on nukes, kill bosses by not fucking up guns/reloads.
    Fo: hide in middle of team, click ground to whore kills periodically (not even spam needed).

    Whoever designed Fo probably never played non-recruit game in their life. And whoever plays Fo is not likely to get out of recruit either. Kite-everything UA3 surv is something way more suited for class like Fo, at least player there needs to run away and pre-target the shells cos both player and enemy is moving.
    -- END OF RANT --

    My guess is that NOTD2 was supposed to address these issues as Kith said something about taking nukes away, making demo-tank less tanky, sharing XP. But its a big question mark how that would turn out, and if it would be notd or just another ua3 kitefest.
  9. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    A. Caster classes don't require resources that could otherwise be used by other players, so they get a lower damage cap.
    B. Caster classes are (usually) easier to play than weapons classes, so they get a lower damage cap.
    C. The game isn't designed for every game to be 2500 sr nightmare with everyone buying all the equipment they need. In a Normal game, if we aren't likely to find enough god-tier weapons, and where I know my base damage on amm, desochem, etc is going to be high enough and I'm playing with fairly new players that I'm going to have to teach/lead and therefore don't have the patience/focus to get gold reloads every time, I'm going to pick a caster class.
    D. Who said the game has to be balanced, anyways? Last I checked the most important goal was for it to be fun. Fun (for me) always came from the extreme difficulty. The easiest way to get extreme difficulty for the past 4 years since we got to the point that we could reliably beat sec b nm speed is to make it harder on yourself by picking sub-optimal classes, disallowing certain locations/weapons/items, and whatever else you can think of. Are you honestly not at the point yet where a perfect game of NOTD is boring as hell?
  10. stanK

    stanK Member

    Like you said -- fun is subjective. So I speak for myself when I say I like perfect games and little else. OFC, "perfect" is also subjective :) Games are rarely perfect tho, especially if u keep trying new things with new players.
    But this is a bit off topic og ozzy.
  11. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    commandr can also become a backline dps by using xm814

    and forward observer has bad single target damage because of how airstrike works and how I think it should be
  12. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    mages should have skillshots which take skill to aim and require shot leading which is aiming ahead of a moving target so that the target and projectile will collide and mages require more energy management
    in heroes of the store mages do have less total damage numbers than the auto attackers but they have better burst damage and kill potential on somebody out of position because mages have crowd control
  13. stanK

    stanK Member

    Yes, mando CAN do that, but Fo will always do that. Thats what I meant.
  14. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Sorry, I meant in NOTD. The same is not true in many other games.
  15. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Fix'd.
  16. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    operations commandr ultimate could be something that makes more sense to a weapon dps

    get 25% lifesteal from the primary target for 15 seconds and the lifesteal can overheal in the form of shields up to 250 shields
    30 second cooldown

    to use this in the combo would be
    adrenaline+heightened senses→5 second wait→surgical strike+mending strike→heightened senses→cooldown

    it makes the commandr less dependent on the medic and frontline
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
  17. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    if one shot one kill destroys 6% of a heroic unit's max health+1600 damage it could be good enough

    if pyro flamethrower burn ability can increase up to 1500 dps without he ammo then it would be good enough for bosses

    if nano sear was a skillshot that did 40000 damage over 60 seconds it would be good enough for bosses

    if assault jump did 2000% damage to heroics (3000) and his ultimate was increased to do 20% of a heroic target's max health

    if airstrike had 10 bombs of 900 damage in a radius of 2 and high frequency

    the operations commandr can burst at over 3000 dps using flamethrower against many bosses (over 6000 dps on eos) so mages need a way to get close to that kind of boss dps
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
  18. Stereo
    • Development Team

    Stereo Paper Boy

    are you being facetious when you are suggesting these numbers
  19. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    gunslinger can also use more boss damage

    upload_2017-1-29_23-20-47.png

    and one shot one kill should always do more damage than smite because it is a single target ability on the more vulnerable talent path
  20. Pickles

    Pickles New Member

    Morning from the East Coast fellas,

    I'm all for breathing new life into some of the underused/underutilized characters.

Share This Page