The K Report: Player Incentives

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Kith, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    You guys know the drill by now. I consolidate all of my ideas and the ideas of others into a megathread for the sake of convenience. This time, we’re going to take a look at incentives to keep people playing NOTD and to encourage them to play as best they can, instead of tanking rating to make NOTD easier and so on.

    Player Rating

    These incentives are designed to make players more interested in playing NOTD for an extended period of time and to play NOTD well, not to punish new players for being new or bad players for being bad. As a matter of fact, there are rewards for being new or bad. The game is much easier and you have WAY more room to fuck around with extra lives. These rewards and incentives are aimed to make the veteran player's single life count more so that it is comparable to the non-veteran's several.

    Run For Your Life: Trading extra lives for extra movespeed [Implemented]
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    This one is pretty simple, and will encourage (and assist) kiting. Simply put, the player receives a 1% movespeed bonus for every extra life they do not have due to a high rating. This bonus logically will cap at 9% bonus movespeed, as there are only 9 lives to lose via rating, as extra lives gained through Endurance do not count.


    The More You Sweat, The Less You Bleed: Bonus stats from rating
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    1900 Rating
    Players gain 1 additional point in stats that they have at least 5 points in.

    2000 Rating
    Players gain 1 additional point in stats that they have at least 7 points in (stacks with the 1900 bonus).

    The rating bonus would allow players to have more than 9 points in stats (for a total of 11 possible points if they maintain a 2000 rating). The bonus points would function just like the normal points do, in that they won’t give any more or less of a bonus than a regular point would. The bonus stats from rating would be applied at the beginning of the game, meaning that if your rating dips below 1900 or 2000 due to hits taken or mission delay in the middle of the game, you will still retain your bonuses. Zombies will not be able to hit you so hard they knock the stat points off of you.


    Class Points

    The Veteran’s Scars: A revised Class Point system [40% Implemented]
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    There have been a lot of complaints about the CP system being way too much of a bonus and being way too accessible. The 5 CP bonus only helps noticeably on 4 or so classes, and the 10 CP bonus is stupidly powerful on everything, throwing pacing off by a huge amount and disrupting balance rather noticeably. 10 CP can be obtained extremely quickly by newbies, locking them into a certain class for hundreds of games to preserve their precious double talent. This breeds a habit of selfishness and stubbornness, which is kinda bad! So here’s what I propose:

    CLASS POINT GAIN
    Recruit/Easy - Grants 1 CP upon victory. 25% chance for other CP to decay.
    Normal - Grants 1 CP upon victory. 20% chance for other CP to decay.
    Hardened/Veteran - Grants 1 CP upon victory. 15% chance for other CP to decay.
    Nightmare - Grants 2 CP upon victory. Grants 3 CP upon Speed victory. CP does not decay.
    Survival - Does not grant CP unless on Nightmare, which grants 1 CP upon victory. CP does not decay.

    What does this do? Makes it harder to grind CP, but increases CP gain for those who play hardball. More incentive for the player to try harder, and it also puts CP further out of reach for new players, making it more of a veteran thing. By the time that newbies learn about CP, they’re more than likely going to be at least 5k, and have tried out a multitude of classes instead of sticking with whatever they’ve been playing since the beginning to protect their precious 10 CP. The more obsessive ones will start grinding for the 50 CP bonus, but it’s going to be a much more gradual transition instead of something that you can get in an afternoon.

    CLASS POINT BONUSES
    10 CP - Start at level 2
    20 CP - +1 Shield Armor, +10 Maximum Shields
    30 CP - 1 Trait point
    40 CP - +1 sight range, +1 detection range
    50 CP - 1 additional Trait point, for a total of 2


    TRAITS
    You know how we have Medals/Talents/Stats tabs? This will add a new one called "Class". It will track how many CP you have in that current class and allow you to access the Traits. When you reach 20 CP, you'll get a point to spend in one of the bonuses, but not before you take a point out. When you reach 40 CP, you gain another point, and can choose to double up on the trait you picked before or put it into the other available traits. You only get two points to spend total, but you can put these points in whatever you wish. Putting two points into the same trait will make it an improved trait (I.E., two points in Toughness would make it Improved Toughness, two points in Cunning would be Improved Cunning, so on and so forth). Taking points out will incur the reverse of the bonus (so if you take points out of Toughness, you drop 5% maximum hitpoints).

    Toughness - +5% maximum hitpoints/-5% maximum hitpoints
    Stamina - +20% hitpoint regeneration/-20% hitpoint regeneration
    Fortitude - +1 Armor/-1 Armor
    Hardiness - +1 Shield Armor/-1 Shield Armor
    Ingenuity - +5% maximum Energy/-5% maximum energy
    Cunning - +10% energy regeneration/-10% energy regeneration
    Swiftness - +5% Movespeed/-5% Movespeed
    Alacrity - +5% attack speed/-5% attack speed
    Precision - +5% Critical Strike chance/+5% Miss chance
    Organized in bonus/penalty

    STARTING AT LEVEL 2
    One of the major problems of the current CP system is that the player starts with a double talent. Straight up starts with an additional talent point to drop wherever he wants, and continues to level as if he was a Level 1 character. This is a problem. To pull an example from another, much older game; Dungeons and Dragons has a system to work around player races that are much more powerful than your common human. This is called Level Adjustment. The idea is that the character must gain additional experience before advancing in class level to balance out the fact that they may have immunities to disables or bonus stat points. A race that has +1 level adjustment means that they must actually gain enough experience to advance to level 3 before advancing to level 2.

    Now, what does this have to do with NOTD? Well, NOTD requires that you gain more experience to proceed to later levels than it does to proceed to earlier ones. This is to prevent snowballing from getting completely out of control and having a DPS class max out both trees and then ascend to Godhood. If the player starts at Level 2 instead of Level 1 with the maximum CP bonus, then they retain their early game bonus, but are subject to the experience gain level adjustment, meaning that everyone else has a chance to “catch up”, making the snowball effect much less drastic. Also, for the sake of fairness, this immediate level up has the appropriate chance to proc the Double Talent bonus of Intelligence.
  2. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    Crazy old man thought:

    Can the proposed 20 CP bonus also include +2 Shield Armor?

    The thought here is that, as you mentioned earlier, 20 shields just doesn't really do anything for more than 3-4 classes. The shield armor will probably be appreciated by Flamethrowers and Demos, but in the latter case if more of a drop in the bucket, and in the former they have no real ability to boost Shield Armor (Particularly since FA medics don't see much call in Alpha Company), so it's hardly overpowering.

    But 2 armor? Well, it'd make the midranged shield users a bit tougher. Yeah, not going to help the Technician. But a Recon or Rifleman with just 2 innate armor is able to take an extra hit from a light enemy without being bent over by it necessarily. And I'm sure therefore they will appreciate the relative ability for a troll charge spawn to crack their shield instantly in nightmare.
  3. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    Adding even 1 shield armor would solve the issue of the mutalisk double-hit bug stacking hits and ailments without doing health damage to Commando/Psi Ops/Marksman with CP. Or... give the mutalisk a melee attack and call it a day.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    Really, the main reason I'm hesitant to do so is the Pathfinder. However, I'll think about it.
  5. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    +1

    I actually see no reason to keep them ranged. Unless air melee cannot hit ground w/o making said air unit now crowbar/flame-able.

    If so, retain ranged attack, replace with something that has a slower attackspeed + no bounce

    +1
  6. HDD
    • Donator

    HDD Well-Known Member

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    How do we get the 2000 rating bonus? cause everytime we got -1 in Rating when the mission start. Maybe pull it off at 1999?
  7. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    wasn't it just karma that got a -1?
  8. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    That's -1 Karma, HDD. Not Rating. Rating only lowers when
    A: You take fucking forever for a mission
    B: You take way too many hits
    C: You die

    Now, about the Shield Armor thing. If that was implemented along with the Traits system, the Pathfinder would be capable of picking up 10 shield armor total. 3 from Assault Jump, 2 from the CP bonus, 1 from Improved Hardiness, and 4 from XS-4. I'm not so sure I'm comfortable with how durable that would make him. However, the idea has merit for all of the other classes, so I'm going to change it to the +2 Shield armor.

    But.

    After implementation, I'm going to test the shit out of it (or get plenty of feedback, whichever). If it turns out that the Pathfinder gains too much durability as a result, I'm going to change it to "Shield Durability Bonus" and work out separate bonuses.
  9. SirGalahad

    SirGalahad New Member

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    Regarding the -1 rating at start, does this not occur when you join a low SR game (ie pub)? I know that when I join a pub, even with 0 hits I will often have -1 rating even after Tartarus. I'm not sure what causes this, but it does happen. I will SS the next time if necessary.
  10. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    I have this quite a lot too. I don't know what seems to cause it.
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    Either way, the bonus will still apply if you had 2000 rating before the game began.
  12. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    You get that -1 rating when your selfish pubstar team refuses to stand on the hexes at the Starport.
  13. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    Clarifying: The bonus stats are locked in when Stats lock themselves?

    Because if it actually figured out the bonus the moment the game started it would base your bonus on the stats from the last game, and not necessarily what you want to use this game, perhaps?
  14. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    It's simpler than that, just set its attack delay to any number but fucking zero. Then it has to pause, for any duration of time, before it can attack again.
  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    Correct. You are eligible for the bonus if you meet the Rating requirements, and there should be a check for how many bonuses (one or two) you are eligible for at the start of the game. If your rating dips below the requirement before stats lock in, you'll still have the bonus until the end of the game, and it locks with stats.
  16. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    Since rating now grants ms isn't it high time lvl 3 moh was fixed to do so as well?
    Or indeed every level of moh since I'm closing in on lvl4 :D
  17. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    It shouldnt have been broken in the first place, since it would be incredibly easy to implement. Movement bonuses are mercifully one of the more cooperative values to deal with in the editor.
  18. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    Any concerns if I move this to public discussion?
  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    I don't have any. We need to discuss the CP rework anyways.
  20. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    RE: The K Report: Player Incentives

    The CP suggestions are good and all, EXCEPT for no cp gain in pubs.

    If that were implemented, there would be no real incentive for me and probably a lot of vets out there to play pub.
    To play a game mode for 1 hour and 15 minutes and get nothing but 70xp
    easy as heck... but not the best way to leverage ur time in rewards for the game
    cause i am still fully capable of winning vet and nightmare

    what i love about NOTD is that it is able to track your exp and rewards
    and if knowing that playing pub is the least rewarding mode for the time given
    i would not play.

    I would suggest to reward half a CP in pub.
    I would be fine with that. But if none given, 70 xp and a boring game mode is not worth playing for a vet like me.

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