The K Report: Classes

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Kith, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Can you make the bounces happen faster than they do currently?

    When you fast five something, quite a lot of bounces end up wasted because by the time they bounce at a target, it is already dead.
  2. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I spoke with Ability, suggesting instant projectile speed. You'll have to take that up with him.
  3. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    So apparently the Trick Shot projectiles are already dealing reduced damage. Their damage doesn't decrease per bounce, the bounces just deal half. No doubt a relic of the old Pistol's 20 base damage. So Trick Shot doesn't need fiddling with, we just need to come up with new armor reduction scaling and update Trick Shot's tooltip.

    Considering that the Pistol loses 1.5 damage per point of armor, I'm just going to go out on a limb and say increasing armor penetration by .5 per level. At maximum level with Invaders Must Die, the Pistol bypasses armor completely. The reason for this is because a lot of people have complained about the Gunslinger's lack of apparent effectiveness against Hulks, Agrons, and other heavily armored foes, and this will lead to less uselessness.
  4. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Hm, then again Hulks are extremely rare in Apollo Sec and Agrons only have 3 armor to start with.

    If you have a SS rec as most teams do, Sensor + LD + AP is a -7 armor reduction and most enemies in Sec tend to have low armor (outside of Hades2).

    Making pistol ignore armor may actually reduce its effectiveness in that it no longer benefits from the armor decrease on enemies especially mid-late game.

    I agree that it would depend on having a SS rec though, but being a team game and exped baseline, that tends to be the case.
  5. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I prefer equal effectiveness, and apparently many others do as well. I personally thought it was fine, but popular opinion states otherwise, and I can see the reasoning behind it, soooo... yeah.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Updated the list. It's taken a month, but a good amount of the items on the list have been completed. Celebrations!
  7. Zuriel

    Zuriel Well-Known Member

    Re: Charge, it feels like a skill out of place to me. You see, all the skills from T1 to T2 affect either the weapon (ammo feed) or its output damage (everything else) Charge feels like an outlier.

    Could we, in the spirit of arms assault, change it to something that is weapons related as well?

    Since attack speed has been covered, attack damage and micro stun when crit procs has also been covered, is there any other way we can buff a weapon's output for arms assault's T3?

    One suggestion is to make its T3 a passive, like marksman's T3 (ass) and have it add a level to the T1 and 2 skills.

    Or we could have a channeling type skill that turns the arms ass into a zombie mower like he's meant to be.
  8. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Zuriel, that's the idea. My plan is to move Charge into the tank tree (to replace stun) to make it more active (and of course rebalance it so it's not the high damage it is now) and give Arms' ArcV's Overwatch ability as its t3.
  9. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Presuming people don't love the TnA of Peera more than Overwatch. Overwatch is posted on the front page of this topic, and Peera has a video with his skill somewhere in NOTD Discussion's topic for his work.
  10. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I linked both of them in the Assault section of the OP. I personally prefer Overwatch because TA... well, TA seems like a portmeanu of the Chem Expert's Scorched Earth. It's literally "shoot many projectiles at ground", and that doesn't seem appropriate to me for the Assault. If we gave him shoulder-mounted missile racks like a Warhammer 40,000 Terminator, then I'd be cool with it, but ATM he just kind of shoots these bright projectiles out of nowhere.

    I prefer Overwatch because it has a team synergy aspect, and also because it synergizes with everything that the Arms Assault already has (that is to say, lots and lots of crits).
  11. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    It was originally gonna be a hail of tracers, but peera got lazy.
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Then we'd have to justify it working on all weapons. Obviously we can avoid the "monoing with a crowbar" silliness, but what about Marksman Rifles and Flamethrowers? We lack the space in general to make TAs for every weapon. The Arms Assault is the definitive "guy with the gun", so I'd rather his ult be dependent on what kind of weapon he's wielding so it becomes a question of tradeoffs.

    Also, Blood Frenzy needs its damage bonus bumped up by 20% at both levels or its duration increased by roughly 10 seconds.

    Also, something for Ghost, because it only just now occurred to me: the reason the majority of the changes I'm aiming to make have been buffs is because the things in question were unfair (the taunt slow, for instance, or the chem expert's miserable movespeed and questionable armor) or the classes in question were underplayed (the arms assault and in a lot of cases the crifle). I'm aiming for any campaign to be able to be played by any combination of the available classes, not have people shoehorned into the same roles every time.
  13. Zuriel

    Zuriel Well-Known Member

    I think overwatch would be very good. Great idea, Arc.
  14. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Overwatch fit into the theme of Assault much more then Peera's Stream of Superheated Lead.

    Mainly, Overwatch is just better overall in terms of how your weapon will have a huge effect, and that it is more fitting overall, especially since Arms Assault is defined by Shooting metric tons of lead at zombies and watching them die from lead poisoning. The best part about it; It makes good use of the Perception Stat and Critical Strike Talent (Present on 3 classes), and from what I think, it fits more into the idea of dousing zombies with lead, and provides extreme synergy with his Arms tree alone.
  15. TuRKeYMaN

    TuRKeYMaN Member

    Here is Kith's old response to Assult. Also I agree with it, certainly be interesting. Also, does any1 have any ideas on an inate skill for the Assult? Or will the hit rating tolerance be enough? I only ask because i have no clue as to what will suit a DPS and tank class.
  16. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    yes
  17. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The Assault's innates, the hit tolerance and the extended magazine, are plenty. Protection is fine, if a little slow (which is why I want to move Charge into Stun's place because Charge will accomplish the same task and also make the Protection Assault a way of getting around). Arms is the tree that needs attention, considering that, as I mentioned, it's out-DPSed and outran by fukken everything.[hr]
    ... drunkposting again, I see.[hr]
  18. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I am wary of the buffs to Assault which while needed will be of a much larger magnitude now that you expect your combat rifle rework to be implemented.

    It is like one class' dps chasing the other. In the end, it makes you PF look a lot less OP than I thought initially because dps classes seem to get their damage output improved even more to match the output of the PF.

    I would have liked to keep the dps rifle as it was except with energy changes and rapid fire to a weaker fireup. Then the assault would also only need. Tiny changes.

    You are free to disagree of course

    My initial reply was more eloquent but somehow got deleted while editing, so this is just a quick recap.
  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Ghost, the Combat Rifle is capable of outdpsing the Arms Assault because the Combat Rifle has a Tier 3 that's actually conducive to his design. The Arms Assault doesn't. Dude has Charge, which is basically Shadowstep with knockback. Yes, that's somewhat useful because the Assault is slow, but it's piss poor as far as a Tier 3 for a DPS class goes. The Arms really shouldn't need any more buffs after Overwatch gets put in and the design stops being all over the place.

    Edit: Also, since when was the Pathfinder a standard for damage? He's trumped by the Combat Engineer and the Opsmando.
  20. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Not to mention Overwatch gives the Assault something the Combat Rifle doesn't, which means they don't have to chase each other because it's not a question of "Buffed damage rapid fire DPS" vs "Buffed damage rapid fire DPS" necessarily. Overwatch keys off other marines as well so it becomes "Solo Artist Buffed Damage Rapid Fire DPS" vs "Team buffed Lockdown DPS".

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