The K Report: Classes

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Kith, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    Another reason to replace it then. :/

    Starting to change my mind about giving the AssTank a means to deal with ailments since it's one of said tank's integral weaknesses.

    Only real ways for this guy to die are overwhelming odds for an extended duration (because he can take overwhelming odds)

    Bane spammed (w/o RA)

    Queen's frenzy

    and the Ailments stacking to high heavens.
  2. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Well, when I meant Active/Passive and as an example listed Combat Hardened, I listed it only in reference to being a talent which had both Passive Benefits and an Active use.

    So I was meaning something like was more like:

    Cohesion: Active/Passive
    Passively grants 1/2 armor and 10/20% resistance to ailments in a radius.
    20 energy, 5 second duration, 10 second cool down, gives the Assault 100% resistance to Ailments for the duration, does not remove ailments that are already on the marine.
  3. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    I think we should leave Asstank alone in the ailment department. Each tank has his unique thing, and for asstank, its the fact that he does NOT depend on his energy at all to tank like a god. Order flamer has to chain spells to tank well, Tech can reasonably tank, but relies on super HP with large HP regen, and his true tanking power is totally dependent on energy. Demo tank has to taunt/look/TTD to tank well, and can run out of energy. Asstank though, has 0 energy issues, he requires next to none, and has stellar regen. For most major engagements, the asstank does NOT have to worry about energy much at all, its just taunt/taunt/throw random stun when taunt down/taunt/taunt...

    All in all, Asstank is trading energy management for ailment management. Because of this, he is absolute the most reliable tank for taking punishment away from the team, and probably should be left as is. He is the only tank that can look at dozens of enemies of all compositions and just smile as he meets them head on, with no worry that they will be able to truly kill him, no matter what he does or not.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yeah, but the Protection Assault has zero offensive capability, whereas the other tanks have massive offensive capability. I'd like to give him minor offensive capability with Charge and minor ailment resistance with Cohesion to A: make him less boring to play and B: less of a pain in managing clusterfuck ailments. All I'm asking for is to make him at least comparable to the other tanks instead of pure defense now and forever.
  5. TuRKeYMaN

    TuRKeYMaN Member

    Ailment protection is a bad idea as it will encourage facetanking. Players need to learn how to kite and medjcs manage their players. Ailment protection will make the tank more boring to people who already think he is. He also is on the Characters newbies learn to play when they begin because he has one of the most important jobs. By giving him alijent protection it will encourage newbies to facetank, let figure it out by themselves. He doesn't need changing, he serves his purpose well
  6. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I agree he does not need ailment resistance, besides it being a strange class to have an ailment resistance aura on in the first place.

    One you have safeguard and a c4/c6, outside of queen, stalkers, agrons and parasites, hardly anything will stack ailments on you.

    Ghouls, zombies, infested rines all have no chance to stack ailments (as long as safeguard is up and maxed) as their attacks will no longer count as hits.
  7. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    +1 (As well as Arcane's post). Am now fully converted to no change re. ailments.

    Replacing stun with charge on the other hand,
    +0.5.

    The DPS assault could really use a different T3. The AssTank could also use a damage/escape talent.
    He does tend to get surrounded a lot and could use a means to get right in the face of something in order to prevent said thing from hitting a teammate.
  8. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    If we are going to move charge to the Assault tank, then we'll obviously need the replace the numbers, because the skill is now going to be T2, where once it was a T3. Similarly, since it was once considered powerful enough to be a T3, does it deserve to be nerfed in its new role?
  9. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    I would say so, yes. I remember seeing someone make a quick proposal for the damage. I just don't remember who or where.
  10. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Easiest way is to just take the existing number or damage, stun, and knockback, shave it in half and call it "Level 1"
  11. Seeky

    Seeky New Member

    One other thing, are we gonna keep the armor bonus after charge too? Do we round the number of Level 1 to 3?
  12. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Have a look at what I posted a few pages back
  13. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

  14. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Concentrated Fire.

    Also, for those worrying about Charge, Ghost had it down pat:

    Leave range alone, leave stun alone, remove armor bonus (mostly because the protection assault doesn't need it), change damage to 50/100.
  15. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    here's an idea: keep it as suppressive fire but give it a 5/10/15% chance to proc all the buffs from blood frenzy and overwatch (which I support as charge replacement) that crits do, without actually being a critical hit.
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The Arms' damage output is lackluster compared to everything else (at least, on a shot-by-shot basis), so it's not like the bonus crit chance would be unwarranted by any stretch of the imagination. In addition to that, an additional proc chance would be (correct me if I'm wrong) horribly miserable to code because you would have to increase the proc chance but not the crit chance but the crits proc too so what do we do with the proc chance on top of the crits and math and science and adsflhasglansgadh
  17. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    1: If we're unwilling to buff Suppressive Fires critical chance, either increase its attack speed boosts, or make each level up reduce cost so it can be spammed longer.
    2: Buff Blood Frenzy, it should be "green damage" bonus so it stacks properly with other damage sources. I also think the bonuses should be upped to 30/60 or 40/80.
    3: New Tier 3 (Again...) Preferably something that synergizes with his roll as long range weapon based dps.
  18. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    More love for Overwatch, hell yeah! I'm honest enough to admit I like it idea of something I whipped up coming to pass.

    Odd Idea: Buff Suppressive Fire by having a circular bonus nature to it. Here's what I mean...

    Suppressive Fire increases attack speed as it does now, and gets bonus damage (15/30/45%?) against Stunned or Slowed Targets.
    Blood Frenzy Stuns.
    Overwatch slows enemies who get Stunned. Which in turn buffs Suppressive Fire's bonuses again. Thus you have this strange pattern where every talent feeds into every other talent. It makes the tree like the Order Flamethrower, for example, in that there is a huge incentive to black out the talent tree because of how everything chains together.

    Also rewards team synergy as Countermeasures suddenly turns into a DPS Buff for the Arms Assault, etc.

    Just an odd thought. Especially since I know that Pure Attack Speed is "Empty DPS" and fares quite poorly as the difficulty of the game increases. In disorganized teams or with worthless hybrid assaults, etc, it's still just Empty DPS. In a coordinated team it should give an Arms Assault enough oomph to make him comparable to other DPS Marines like the Combat Rifleman, on pure weapon damage.
  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Considering that it's a tier system and he's in the "introduction campaign", I'd rather it be simpler. Suppressive changing to Concentrated and the crit increase applying means that players will be able to see a very simple pattern for the Assault: more crits means more damage and more debilitating effects. I'd rather have it all build from Tier 1 to Tier 2 to Tier 3 and all be very simple instead of do the crazy roundabout synergy that some of the other classes have. Also I'm pretty staunch in my opinion that Overwatch should be picked up instead of Total Annihilation. Overwatch just FITS better, and TA makes the Assault feel like a Terminator with a Cyclone Missile Launcher on his back. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it just seems like it's tacked on. Overwatch flows with everything much more smoothly.
  20. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The good news is that a lot of the stuff in the OP I can mark off as done. However, I'm posting from my phone, so no can do on that quite yet. I've got some new stuff to throw around, though.

    People have made complaints that the Pathfinder's Gunslinger tree is underperforming and overperforming at the same time, in that the damage output is less than stellar but the bounce attacks obliterate thhe lighter spawns, making it eat EXP like candy, so here's what I've got cooked up to fix this problem.

    The first step is to rework Handgun Expertise's armor reduction. Its going to be changed so that, at max level, it totally peirces armor, leaving it equally effective against all targets.

    Trick Shot, on the other hand, is going to be nerfed considerably. Instead of dealing full damage with each bounce, each bounce is going to deal 15% less damage, leading to 85% damage dealt with the first bounce, 70% damage dealt with the second, 55% damage dealt with the third, and 40% damage dealt with the fourth. This will bring Trick Shot more in line with what it was intended to do: give the pistol splash like the other weapons, instead of giving it some bizarre form of perfect splash that ate experience like candy.

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