Partially Implemented The Death of Marine Actions

Discussion in 'NOTD 2 Discussion' started by Kith, Jan 30, 2015.

  1. Kith
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    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Marine Actions (or Additional Actions) currently has several important functions stored within it that I have realized don't necessarily need to be stored there anymore, so I'm getting rid of it. This topic is for detailing what's going where now that the submenu is getting cut.

    Removals:
    Medical Assistance

    Medical Assistance is an old holdover from NOTD from the days of the Use/Drop Inventory when point and click items were not possible. Now that they are with NOTD 2's inventory, the Medkit, Bandage, Antivenom, and Mending Paste items will become point and click (similar to the current Road Flare). Medical items no longer being click-on-use does make it more difficult to spam heals and bounce back from major damage, NOTD 2 having Jump and the general rebalancing of enemies and the like makes me feel that it's not really that big of a deal. I will examine the possibility of making double-clicking an item cast it on the user, but no promises.

    Disable/Enable Inventory Transfer
    The inventory toggle was implemented when NOTD made the change to the newer inventory because people were trolling each other by throwing items into other people's inventories so they couldn't pick up the things that they wanted or needed. Items being rebalanced in general in and the Favored Weapon system means that is much, much less likely to happen.

    Assault Rifle Burst Fire
    This was added as kind of a "neato beans" feature to make the Assault Rifle more attractive as a weapon. However, testing has shown that it causes reload issues with non-standard magazine sizes (which will be more common than you would think considering there's a Badge for that) and it doesn't really add anything to the weapon beyond the novelty factor - the Assault Rifle is still a jack-of-all-trades weapon that's beat out in almost every category by something else. I'm probably going to be going through and rebalance the other weapons and possibly give the Assault Rifle a little buff, but for right now the only concrete plan is to cut Burst Fire 'cause it doesn't need to be there. A Burst Rifle or Double Tap Rifle or something similar may become available as an unlock by beating up some mercenary nerds.

    Relocations:
    Night Vision

    Similar to what we've done with the Talents button, we are going to be moving this outside of the Command Card. It will have a hotkey of N.

    Drop Magazine
    Once the Ammo Bar is updated and beautified and all of that, clicking it will drop a magazine into the player's inventory. The hotkey for this will be M.

    HMG Setup
    The HMG is insanely strong and I've been seeking a way to nerf it in a way that I don't hate. Killing Marine Actions, however, has shown me the light: holding the HMG replaces the Sidearm button with the current Setup/Teardown toggle (so the new hotkey for these abilities would be D). Sidearms are indeed intended to be backup weapons, but the HMG is the heaviest weapon in the game - I don't feel there's a logic error in preventing you from accessing them when you're lugging around the biggest and most powerful gun NOTD 2 has to offer. It's important to note that the Occular Implants Sidearm will still function while an HMG is equipped.

    Hold Fire/Weapons Free
    Considering how important these abilities are for both recon and general play, Hold Fire/Weapons Free is getting the newly available prime real estate of the main command card and the hotkey X that they definitely didn't loot from Marine Actions' dead body.

    Reassignments:
    Team Location

    Not necessarily related to Marine Actions, but still important. Team Location is getting a new hotkey of L (because I want to have Y free for science). Additionally, old text command "-tl" will activate it (a request from an Aftermath player that I can't really find fault with).

    Talents
    There's definitely going to be a close button added to the upper right of the tree window, possibly hotkeyed to ESC. Additionally, I might, emphasis on might, change the hotkey to K so B becomes available for other things.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
  2. Commlink
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    Commlink Programmer/Asset Designer

    Never used hold fire at all, alot of players once they know how to kite correctly will find hold fire useless. Now im not saying remove it by any means, but X hotkey should be given to something that would be used constantly and not by just one or 2 classes especially as its in a prime position. Just my thoughts.

    The Y hotkey will be missed, can't say im happy about its move to far side of the keyboard L as its pinged and used almost ever minute and Y is in pretty mid way point, but still close enough that im not straining my fingers to reach it. As reload maybe moving to R - why not make team location T ? seems more logical unless you have other plans for T.

    The removals are fine never used any of them.
    Just thought i would add in my feedback not as a dev, but as someone who plays notd2 alot and put the game though its paces.
  3. Blaqk
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    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    Every class is constantly shifting to hold fire for the significant ms boost it provides. Why on earth would you not use it, silly?
  4. Kith
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    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    NOTD's hold fire gives a movement speed bonus while active. I want to say it's 15%. If not that, it's 10%. Also, casual reminder that NOTD 2 has a system that punishes excessive gunfire.

    There are several abilities that use the R. If we end up making Reload R, then the abilities in question will be changed to T or possibly B, depending on what I do with that.

    I appreciate the feedback.
  5. Commlink
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    Commlink Programmer/Asset Designer

    The Ms boost , never even heard of it. learn something new everyday. As im not a native notd player - is this on the tooltips (for notd2 i mean)? if not needs to be more advertise as others like myself may not know for future reference.

    Ok so T is outta the question. Still is there nothing closer? can keys like \ be used? i dont really know sc2's key bindings so just inquiring.
    If your using the hotkeys down one side of the keyboard in mid battle you really don't wanna take your fingers away to find rest of team, which i think is an important part of notd2. With the increased ability to kite and jump walls you easily lose track of your team in a fire fight.
  6. Kith
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    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I'm pretty sure it is. If it isn't, it will be.

    Thing is, team location isn't super important to have on hand at all times. If you don't want to use your keyboard hand, the button for it is on the UI. I'm not saying T isn't an option because I may end up freeing up B, just that I'm not making any promises on the matter.
  7. Commlink
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    Commlink Programmer/Asset Designer

    I see team location as very important which im sure you have probably gathered already, but just for clarification and so you can understand where im coming from i'll give you a run down.

    Team location in recruit mode is very important to new players to understand that sticking with the team is vital, yet so is staying alive its very easy to get sperated and moving the mouse to mini map or having to look at your keyboard to find the button that on the compete opposite side while moving around will get them most likely killed. I use it frequently in my current games of notd2 thats why im so insistent on a good placing and easy access.

    Medical classes need to find players that get separated or such in battle/missions etc, team location plays a vital role in this. once again if your running of to heal someone in middle of apocalypse do you really wanna be looking at your screen microing or attempting to find the team location button, or have those spare seconds where u gotta flash over to the mini-map, there's also no grantee u will not mis-click hence why hot keys and location are very important.

    Recon fits into the same as above but he/she needs to be aware of team location constantly when scouting for supplies so they can plan ahead to meet up with the team or know if some event happens and plans need to be altered.

    All of this is form my personal experience playing notd2 as well as other games/college, keys should be kept grouped in a bunch and not singled out. You should referrer to a KLM test if he opportunity arises it will be a good way to analyze and find the optimum placement.

    naturally our opinions differ and will respect the final outcome for what its worth you have my feedback as well as reasoning behind it. I hope you can understand where im coming from and take a minute to see my point of view.
  8. Kith
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    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I understand where you're coming from, but I'd prefer players to not rely so much on Team Location. It's there for the people that want to use it, but I'm purposefully putting it out of the way because one of the large parts of balance is not having shared vision or easy access to the locations of your teammates. I'd like to point out that part of one of the Recon's T3s is "permanately reveal the location of your teammates", and this was considered to be too powerful by some. Team Location was balanced against spam in NOTD by having an energy cost, so the balance against it in NOTD 2 will be placement.

    This is all assuming I don't make it T, though. I may very well do that, depending on my decision regarding the Talent trees.
  9. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    night vision is weird because it makes the screen green but if it is off it is harder to attack cloaked targets

    I turn night vision off in undead assault because it changes the screen to green
  10. Kith
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    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Such is life. Once stats are implemented, I suggest you put points in Perception.
  11. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Ugh. God. Push me more and more away from NotD2 why don't you?


    Please no. Moving further and further away from a keyboard will push the more dedicated playerbase away more and more; loss of hotkeys = loss of control because you're spending more time clicking useless shit as opposed to moving your character.

    There will always be assholes who do it regardless. Having an in game option to cockblock said assholes is preferable to teamkilling them, but if you prefer they die repeatedly, then so be it.

    Makes stutter stepping easier, will miss this feature.
    Relocations:
    Won't bother me at all.
    As long as it's responsive, and not clunky like NotD1 inventory, doesn't bother me that much; except binding it to a keyboard will help prevent deaths occurring from loss of stutter step kiting. Happens a lot.
    Shoulder straps for your weapon are a thing.
    Meh. Mispresses will be a thing quite a bit.
    Reassignments:
    Why not the tab key?
    B does the same thing as what you're thinking. B to open, click talent, B to close. Easy-peasy.
    Please, dear god, no.
  12. Kith
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    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    So what is this supposed to mean, exactly? 'Cause we're not moving away from the game we're making. If anything, we're moving away from NOTD SCII and back towards the NOTDs of WCIII (which, by the way, were the much more popular games in the series).

    Uh-huh. I haven't had anyone but you complain about it so far.

    Please, be more dramatic about it. That's sure to convince me.

    So does a Marksman Rifle.

    Balance for your videogame is a thing.

    As far as I'm aware, it's not available. I'll check, but no promises.

    Yeah, just because B does the job doesn't mean that ESC shouldn't also be added. Talents aren't the only window that the players will be able to open mid-game, so I'd like to make sure there's a button that closes all of them.

    You're only encouraging me.
  13. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    I feel targeted meds will be annoying as fuck as well just for the record. Didn't point it before as from this whole post it's only thing to move me slightly and there was that also
    Thus didn't go out of my way posting before it gets clarified.
  14. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    It's the truth. No way to detract from it. Simple fact of the matter is, you'll have team mates who load up your inventory with GPR's, mags, meds, etc, whatever way they can, to troll. Votekick them? Deprive them of a game. Teamkill them when vk isn't an option? Deprive them of a game, get karmabitten, and lose the will to play. Turn off inventory transfer, and limit their way of trolling entirely.
    A marksman rifle doesn't splash a whole group of em.
  15. Kith
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    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    If it starts popping up again you have licence to say "I told you so", otherwise you'll just have to get over it.

    You didn't ask for splash, you asked for stutter step. A weapon that is good at both is a little too powerful for my tastes.
  16. well i too dont like the removal of medical assistance, but i am waiting for it to hit the game and then say after testing new functionality
  17. Kith
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    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Y'all need to speak up more often. Just waiting to see what happens and then bitching afterwards if it turns out to be something you don't like does not help anybody - that shit is annoying and ridiculous and you should know better by now.

    That said, double-click to cast on self does not look like it's going to be possible, but Arcane has yet to check for sure. The topic will be updated when we know.
  18. Commlink
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    Commlink Programmer/Asset Designer

    For inventory items i would rather someone pass them to me then have to make a made dash between you and 3 other players once its been put on ground to get the item. This couldn't be more true then in the case of medkits or bandages when you have open wound. A case can be made for trolling and over filling an allies inventory, but same can be said about putting items on ground for one player and everyone tries to get it, its the lesser of 2 evils imho.

    Targeted meds/bandges on allies is a great way to go especially if your playing with a bunch of newer players, or even as a medic it will save energy for higher end skills to be used. Not to sure personally about losing the ability to one click heal yourself, so got my fingers crossed that double click will be doable.

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