Technical Support: Technician Updates and Tweaks

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Kith, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    So the Weapons Tech gets played a ton and Mods Tech gets played never. Not unlike the Order Flamer/Pyro Flamer, this is because Weapons is awesome and Mods is super janky, so I'm going to fix that.

    [align=center]The Weapons Technician[/align]
    [align=center]Required Changes
    Things that I view as super important and "need to happen".

    Targeting Array/Surveillance Drone
    Should be moved from the Technician to the Surveillance Drone. Considering the Drone's bird-eye view, this is far more contextually appropriate. It also lends significantly more importance to the Drone itself which currently has a habit of being destroyed because players have Floodlights to extend their vision.

    Mad Spark
    Mad Spark is extremely powerful. It is currently as good as a 3.5/7 second stun no matter how you use it, so Mad Spark should be broken (see: killed by a single attack) by bosses. Considering that most bosses now have low turn rates, players will be required to use Mad Spark intelligently against them. This will fix the problem of Mad Spark "solving" bossfights, something that it was never intended to do. It will also cut down on Dual Technician Cheese which is always a plus.

    [align=center]Requested Changes
    Things that I view as kind of important, and "would be nice", but not wholly necessary.

    Floodlights has always supposed to be the replacement for the erstwhile Engineer's Field Nexus, but somewhere along the way it got a little... sidetracked. Due to the difficulty of coding a cone-reveal attached to a character that reveals for the entire team based on proximity, I've come up with an alternate proposal that accomplishes the same task without the coding frustration and increases the energy management requirement for the Technician with Targeting Array moved elsewhere. The Floodlights skill will build a 1x1 building with no pathing footprint that has a directable reveal that is a channeled ability, I.E., permanent until interrupted or redirected. While it is no longer as easy to use as the current Floodlights (easy because it's passive), it stands to be more useful by calling attention to important areas rather than swinging all over the place because the Technician is shooting at things.

    Floodlights - 50 energy cost, 30 second cooldown, casting range of 6
    The Technician erects a collapsible pole topped with a pair of floodlights that can be directed towards an area like a spotlight, revealing it to allies, detecting invisible units, and slightly slowing all enemies within the harsh light.

    Level 1 - Reveals an area of 4 and slows for 5%.
    Level 2 - Reveals an area of 5 and slows for 10%.
    Level 3 - Reveals an area of 6 and slows for 15%.

    [align=center]The Modifications Technician[/align]
    [align=center]Required Changes[/align]

    Ballistics is kind of in an odd place, all things considered. It's just kind of there, and doesn't really mesh with anything else in the Technician's arsenal. It's an unfortunate relic of a bygone age, when I had no idea what to replace Burrow with. Nowadays, I have a bit of a better idea. Bite was a decent skill, and there is a unique opportunity to chain it together with Drones. Also gives the Mods Tech the ability to give OWs so it is no longer a major reason to avoid it and choose Weapons instead. Also, just to clarify - the "increased efficiency" bit is in reference to and based upon Nanites Upgrade. If NU is at Level 1, it's +1 hp for 10 seconds, if it's at Level 2 it's +2, and so on.

    Consume - 35 Health Cost, 5 second cooldown, 3 casting range
    The Technician sends his nanites surging forward to tear into a target, dealing damage, stunning them, and inflicting an Open Wound. Upon returning to the Technician, the nanites use the stolen biomass to increase their efficiency by 50% for 10 seconds. If Consume kills a Crawler Drone, the Technician will also be instantly healed for 85 hitpoints and the Drone will not drop any scrap. Deals 50% damage to non-mechanical allies.

    Level 1 - Deals 75 damage, inflicts 1 Open Wound, and stuns for 1 second.
    Level 2 - Deals 150 damage, inflicts 1 Open Wound, and stuns for 2 seconds.

    March of the Machine
    Just needs to function properly, really. No fancy targeting system or interrupts - just set the player in question to "unallied to all" for the duration of the skill, and reset alliances when it's off. In addition to that, needs to lose the attack speed loss and movespeed loss - both make it easier to keep the Technician in-line. If anything, I'd suggest a movespeed bonus (or charge effect that only works on heroic) to make him that much harder to control around allies. I would also suggest making sure the marines' threat rating is much higher than that of the zombies, so A-Moving while MOTM is active is essentially a death sentence if your teammates are present.

    In addition to this, to make it a bit more team-friendly and warning-heavy, MOTM should feature a "windup time" of three to five seconds where the Technician is immobile (and potentially covered in flashing lights), but the bonuses of MOTM still apply. This is to prevent accidental hotkey presses leading to the Technician turning around and murdering the team. The windup can of course be canceled if triggered in error.

    [align=center]Requested Changes[/align]

    Nanosteel Net
    Net is a bit lackluster. You just snare a dude, and that's not all that interesting. I'd like to have it be more interesting, and open it up as a potential tool to save (or troll?) allies. Who needs a taunt when you've got a mechanically assisted flying giant robot tackle?

    Nanosteel Net - 15 energy cost, 10 second cooldown
    The Technician fires a strong net at a single target, snaring it in place. Air units are dragged down, able to be fired upon as if they were ground targets. This also grants access to the skill Tow which allows the Technician to rapidly retract the net, pulling nonmassive targets towards him and pulling himself towards massive targets. Tow activates automatically if Nanosteel Net is used on an ally.

    Level 1 - 3 second duration, Tow pulls units a distance of 2.
    Level 2 - 4 second duration, Tow pulls units a distance of 3.
    Level 3 - 5 second duration, Tow pulls units a distance of 4.

    Tow - No energy cost
    If a non-massive unit is caught in the Nanosteel Net, the Technician will drag them a distance of [2/3/4] towards him.
    If a massive unit is caught in the Nanosteel Net, the Technician will launch himself a distance of [2/3/4] towards them.
  2. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    What exactly changes here? Is it still the old tier 1 drone with the addition of array? Or is it the old Tier 1 drone and Tier 2 array, just the button moves to the drone? Either way it just seems like a awkward nerv to array than a buff to the drone.

    Depending on the turn rate and attack range of the boss this version would disable a boss for 1-2sec max. I think a reduced time on bosses would have the same effect but make it more predictable and give the option to use spark against mobs during a boss fight.

    Do you have any specific situation in mind this would ever get used? To me its a bad recon flare with a very low slow for 50energy.

    Balistics gets replaced by consume or did i missunderstand that? Because your writing something about Bite which must have been before my time.

    Is it a aoe spell? Because i dont see why you would kill a drone with it instead of shooting the drone. Your using 35hp to gain a heal over time that heals 10-30hp, not counting the life lost to create the drone in the first place.

    The spell itself should be very strong against bosses. Especially in combination with net.

    While that would stop the easy mode of just using weapons that cant friendly fire (CB etc). Im not sure if this wont make it to easy to use. Hold fire, activate motm, right click the boss, success. All you have to watch out for now is to deactivate before the boss dies.

    Would need some testing but i think the numbers for the new net are to strong if used correctly against bosses. Its a 3-5sec disable +1-3sec with 10sec cooldown. Its harder to use but if done correctly a lot stronger than the old spark ever was. (even though single target only)

    If combined with consume, you can perma stun every boss in the game. Without even needing the 2nd tech spark needs.
  3. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Targeting Array is now activated from the Surveillance Drone, not unlike how Overdrive is activated from the X-1.

    How would you code a reduced time on a permanent taunt from a functionally invulnerable unit? The only limiting factor to the Mad Spark is the units' timed life. Either way, yes, it's only going to disable them for a very short amount of time, and that short amount of time can be made slightly larger if the player is clever with their placement. That's how it's intended to be.

    Pretty much every holdout in the game?

    Correct, Ballistics is getting cut and replaced with Consume.

    Single target. This is actually a typo that I missed, Consuming Crawler Drones is supposed to heal 85 hitpoints plus the regeneration. The life lost to create the drone in the first place hardly matters due to the Technician's regeneration, their purpose is to serve as Supporting DPS until such a time that they are needed to be destroyed for their Scrap.

    Oh, I'm aware. Proper precautions will make MOTM fairly safe to use. It shouldn't be something that everyone is afraid of - with proper management, it's a really useful personal buff. However, if you don't pay attention, you could easily end up killing your teammates, just like with Nukes or Mono.

    Most bosses in Apollo are ranged, so the first 3-5 seconds of snare hardly matter in that case. I also failed to mention that using Tow and colliding/stunning the enemy will lead to the net breaking and the unit being free at the end of the stun. However, you raise a decent point. I changed the stun duration progression from 1/2/3/ to 1/1.5/2, which should solve the problem. If it does not, we can increase the cooldown from 10 to 15.

    Also, something I realized: I made it sound like you could get multiple casts of Tow out of a single Net, which was entirely unintended. Tow is only supposed to be used once per cast of Net.

    Nnnnot really. Disable them a ton? Certainly. Permastun? No. I think you're confusing Snare with Stun.
  4. Miracle
    • Development Team
    • Community Leader

    Miracle NOTD Staff: Assistant of many things

    Should the drag have a duration before the tether used to pull target towards the Technician fails? Suppose in the unlikely event where two Technicians net and Tow the same target, what happens?
  5. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Is it a one time use like the drones retrofit? Because if not you just made Weapon tech energy independet. Only actives are spark, floodlight and turret. Turret and floodlight are set once and have a high cd, leaving only spark which is very cheap in itself already (1energy per sec if perma used).

    That means you either abuse height level so he cant attack it or dont use it at all (on bosses, which is its main use). I would even prefer if it wouldnt affect bosses at all then so you could use it on mobs close to bosses in general, especially hades.

    I dont know if bosses have anything unique about them you could use to make a abillity affect them only. If not the only way i could think of would be giving spark 2 abillitys. The normal one not affecting massiv and a second lasting 50% for massiv.

    So its a 15% slow for 50energy?

    That means the whole healing part (including efficency) is only when used on a drone? That gives it a nice second use. The main use i can think of would be during bosses, not sure about the numbers being worth sacrificing the stun for but that would have to be tested.

    Where i come from a snare is a slow, net would be called a root, and i know the difference between them and a real stun.
    I guess here shows the different playstyle of EU and NA though. We use ranged weapons which still outrange a boss which turns a root into a stun.
    That way its a 4sec root +2sec stun, +2sec from consume every 10sec. Making it a 80% stun disable which can be maintained for a long time.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I'm aware of that. It's why I suggested Floodlights become an active. Technician has never really had energy management issues anyways, between a high innate energy regen and Cockpit. If these go through, I will have a reason to cut his base energy regen and potentially that of Open Cockpit as well, because somewhere along the way I stopped liking that he can get over 2 energy/sec with no items or stats.

    I spoke to Arcane about it, and it's entirely feasible. While Mad Spark's current utility is to disable a boss, that's not its intended purpose. Its intended purpose is to tangle up mobs and to gather them in one place for the Black Dog to fire upon.

    You're ignoring the fact that it reveals an area in addition to that slow.

    Increased efficiency happens regardless of what you use it on. Insta-heal happens on drones only.

    True. But not many players are going to be using Net during MOTM, as Net costs Energy. Either way, now that I have some caffiene in me, I've decided to cut the collision stun entirely to avoid this whole mess altogether. Consume already has a stun, Net doesn't need one too.
  7. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    To those that dislike the proposed manual targeting capabilities of MotM:
    What kind of killer robot would stop attacking something after you manually target it? The point is that it recognizes everything as a threat and a target, not that it goes on full autopilot.
  8. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    March of the Machine
    Just needs to function properly, really. No fancy targeting system or interrupts - just set the player in question to "unallied to all" for the duration of the skill, and reset alliances when it's off. In addition to that, needs to lose the attack speed loss and movespeed loss - both make it easier to keep the Technician in-line. If anything, I'd suggest a movespeed bonus (or charge effect that only works on heroic) to make him that much harder to control around allies. I would also suggest making sure the marines' threat rating is much higher than that of the zombies, so A-Moving while MOTM is active is essentially a death sentence if your teammates are present.

    - Kithrixx

    I'm not a huge fan of this current rendition MOTM especially since it sounds like its looking to be made into the old one and I mainly hated the old MOTM because of this thread here. ... p?tid=2574

    I was killed a numerous amount of time by the old MOTM because people were not using it properly and mainly had to reserve to only using it with a crow bar or Barrett.

    Essentially that skill is a troll skill and can cause a massive wipe of team mates out of no where. If that skill ends up being used in the wrong hands, I can only imagine the amount of entertainment I will be reading in the NOTD chat channel.

    I think there has to be some preventive measures in place to prevent MOTM from instantly killing team mates like the old one.
  9. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Atleast you cant spam array and spark, but i agree that his regeneration is to high.

    I agree that sparks current usage vs bosses is just to strong which is why i wanted it to be reduced/removed. I just dont like the idea of it being destroyed easily by a boss. Its a 20sec cd disable which does no damage by itself after all.

    I ignored it because i dont see a realy value in it. Maybe im underestimating it but the only time i realy want vision is when a inf runs over a wall.

    I think you should have a net benefit of using consum instead of just collecting the scrap of a drone. Because this way its always better to let the drone tank whatever and collect the scrap. (maybe even make it usable on scrap too)
  10. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    There is, it's called the experience requirement for Apollo Security. MOTM is crazy powerful if used properly, just like Nukes or Armageddon Bombs or Scorched Earth or any of the other Tier 3s that can TK. It's really not that hard to control; like HipHop pointed out, you just right click and make sure you pay attention.

    So you want to see its usage against bosses reduced or removed, but don't like the idea of it being useless against a boss? I guess I'm not understanding your point of view, here. There are only a few bosses that feature significant spawns, and of those that do, it's not too terribly difficult to distract just the spawns.

    Mad Spark doesn't deal damage because it doesn't need to deal damage. It's a taunt grenade. You get all of the crowd control of a taunt with none of the personal risk. It is, arguably, one of the most powerful skills in NOTD. None of the other support skills can boast that level of crowd control except maybe Look due to its lower cooldown.

    Extended sight range is incredibly important, especially in a game like NOTD where there are many cramped areas, all of them featuring sight blockers of some kind or another. Do you remember how everyone cried bloody murder when I cut down Perception's sight range bonus, and how everyone complained that NOTD was so much harder as a result? Sight is very subtle, but it's very powerful.

    You have a net gain of getting the scrap instantly from any distance and also getting the increased health regeneration for free. If used offensively, Consume only grants health regeneration. It depends on what you need at the time.
  11. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    Having the Experience (especially with the experience inflation of today's NOTD) to unlock Apollo does not necessarily mean a player will be skillful or have the knowledgeable requirement to play every class or even beat the story line. In many cases some are just seeing the chem expert, path finder, and technician for the very first time in their play through. It's not really fair for a player to be playing technician for the first time and end up wiping out a team for no reason.

    In addition, there is the element that vet's can end up using that class in pub games and "accidentally" tk various players and just blame it on the skill.

    This is more of a concern with me, but the choice is yours what you do want to do with that skill.
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Unless I'm wrong, the player also has access to the Demolitions, the Forward Observer, and the Chemical Expert, all three of which are very capable of TKing.

    I think we've given them plenty of opportunities to be responsible by the time they've unlocked the Technician. Ruined games do suck, but I don't see a reason to change it.

    Edit: HipHop, I just remembered something. I need to keep better track of my old design notes. The reason that the Technician's regeneration is so high is because MOTM's drain is so high, both of which are in place to make the effect of an Arc Reactor less significant. If we cut down his energy regeneration, MOTM's drain will come down as well, which will make Arc Reactors that much more powerful because Arcs are flat. I really don't want to revisit the olden days of Permanent MOTM. If all else fails, we can just boost the energy costs of the skills by like 50% or something.
  13. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    The thing with Demolitions, forward observer, chem expert is that those tk can be preventive because the players have control over those skills. Also those tk able skills can be seen as more deliberate than accidental due to their nature. From what I'm reading about MOTM there doesn't seem to be too much control for the skill, which is the only reason why I voiced my concern.

    Anyways, it's only because I've been at the short end of the stick when I was tk'd accidentally on numerous occasions when I played Apollo back in the days with MOTM doing full dmg on allies as opposed to the dmg reduction to allies it has now. It's also the same with chemical expert and the desolation skill. Initially desolation use to tk players very easily evident from the thread I made when I first tested him. However, desolation dmg was reduced on allies which is why its a very safe skill to use now as compared to it's intial stage.

    Other than that, I don't really mind any of the other tweaks as they seem fine for most part. Personally, I want to see it tested on AP map before it is implemented as part of the game.
  14. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    For right now, the most "control" you can get out of it is spam-clicking because of the interrupt commands and whatnot. The new (see: intended) version of MOTM simply unallies the player from everyone else for the duration of the skill. No interrupts, no attack queues, just unallied. From there it's just keeping an eye on your character and making sure that they don't attack any of the other players.

    It has been tested on Peerawatz's map multiple times, and has intended to be implemented for more than a year (and that's just the reminder thread, not the original). It's just never happened because busy people doing busy things. All of the bugs have been ironed out, the concept is a sound one. It just needs to actually happen.
  15. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    I probably would never use flood lights because it is rather underwhelming.

    But there isn't really much that was good about the skill to begin with.

    For changes, make it detect, and have a casting range (I.e. he deploys it without having to go next to it to place it) because in a hold-out, it would be very difficult to use, because that CD is too long for it to be possible to reasonably set up.

    If you do that, I would actually use it, and find good use.
  16. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    I think one major crucial difference between MotM and other lethal T3 is that your teammates have no control over being Tked by MotM. In every other lethal T3 case, there is a visual notification and a fairly lengthy delay on the spell, giving teammates time to clear out in case of accidental usage. IN Motm case, it is "Ooops I hit the hotkey" and everyone is promptly dead. In the intended version, it will assure team wipes because since Tech will be unallied, splash WILL kick in, and thus using any weapon with splash of any kind will pretty much instantly wipe out a team if they are even remotely close together.

    There is a reason we made Pistol and Barret not FF, it was just plain too easy to just a-click and one shot anyone, and to not be A clicking in many situations is dangerous at best. People do not want to lose games because 1 person hits the wrong hotkey. I would almost argue that MotM shouldn't even boost damage at all, he isn't meant to be a super DPS, just boost his tanking capability. Although it is high risk high reward, there is a threshold for the risk that regardless of the reward, short of instant victory (game ends right now, we get handed medals/xp), the risk makes it useless. MotM pretty much falls over that line. And this is really unfavorable once compared to wep tech turret, roughly similar dps with none of the risk.
    Also this... is a problem. As long as this is the intent, people will always regard MotM as a colossal liability and just skip it, or you better buff MotM a TON to justify MoH ending A-clicks.
  17. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Kithrix's proposal makes March have less risk (not that there was too much to begin with so long as you right clicked non-stop), giving the player more control. If anything, if that change does go through and that silly system of random targeting is removed, he would likely be played. In fact, that random targeting is the reason why he has so much bullshit team killing.

    As far as I knew, I thought barret was made into no TK because you could crit with it and kill a person accidentally ( for marksman, rifleman this would be true).

    Crowbar is available as the safe option. It isn't that hard to march with a shotgun, though I had abandoned that practice after I ended up taking a person in a 3-man survival back in the day, after the new system was implemented.

    I don't see the problem with march if that gets fixed.

    I'd want to be able to take down that 300k HP persues in survival.

    But really, all march needs to be usable is for those auto commands to be removed, because that's where the TKing comes from.
  18. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Then we give MOTM a three to five second windup time in which the Technician's bells and whistles start flashing colors so everyone knows to get the hell away.

    Also, Floodlights has a casting range of 6 and does detect. I will amend the first post.
  19. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Is there a limit to the # of floodlights?
  20. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Maximum of 1. I don't want to completely invalidate the Recon's flares.

Share This Page