storyline difficulties' feedback

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by trrrr, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. trrrr

    trrrr New Member

    Ability said the storyline difficulty would be tweaked and that some feedback from the community would be required. So I decided to go ahead and give my opinion on the state of the mod.

    EASY COMPANY NIGHTMARE: It's harder than regular Apollo or Alpha nightmare and it isnt so rewarding for it's difficulty. It requires ops commando or forward observer to bomb domes or it's a real pain to get that part of the story done. The one time I went delta mando surviving the mobs and destroying the last done took so long. We couldnt move out of fort, you see.

    ALPHA NIGHTMARE: People do it all the time because the difficulty/rewards rate is the best. But it still either a ops mando or FO to bomb the mobs.

    APOLLO: It requires the whole team to follow a very detailed script or it will fail. PO has to go inception for Hal shutdown part; PO has to have a L3 to get moar exp fast; PF has to go jump tree of deal with mobs that get too close, to trigger sequences and go back to team fast and to find Dr. and go back to team fast; and need AOE Chen + traps Rifleman if team decides to destroy apollo. Hard to find ammo.

    SURV: Also has a script that must be followed to the letter. Need Inception PO, turret Tech, jump PF and osok MM. PF jump on 1st boss' eggs; team go together to sy or mobs rape team; MM get barret to kill parots; PF jump on slashers if necessary; go to fort b4 mobs of agrons; kill just one cronos and kitte the other while rest of team look for items and drop them at hold out spot; after 2nd cronos is dead all stay at hold out spot amd tech block entrance with turret; PO use inception at GOTB.
  2. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    PO does not have to go inception for HAL shutdown. It only makes it easier but it is still very possible to shut down HAL without an inception psi Ops. People only choose Inception psi ops because it makes things easier.

    Pathy does not have to go jump tree. Parties just like it particularly for his team defence nature. You can still go Slinger and get the job done.

    In addition the requirement for every NM should be that ammo is scarce and a very valuable resource, hence individuals should be learning to conserve ammo rather than going trigger happy.

    In addition people do Alpha NM because the general consensus made by the opinion's of most senior members I've heard from is that there is nothing nightmarish about that mode at all. This in turn is causing individuals to farm their xp and medals for a game mode that requires practically no challenge.
  3. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Actually for sec nm u dont need pf or psi to win it at all. For eggs there r many ways around it. Just a nano med > pf. Hal just 1 kill waves while 3 dl and 4 dodge lasers. If fail u can all go regroup and try again. In eu the only class that we prefer that whores in tech for ow at apo. not a must doe.
    Difficulty in my opinion n experience based on difficulty level and reward:
    Ac nm (the pros pub game)
    Sec nm - surv nm somewhat tie
    Ec nm messy stuff requires uber team work etc.
  4. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    that post is sooo wrong
    indeed it`s hardest of all in my opinion too but,
    you dont need to camp in fort... when no nuke/long range stuff just camp at sy wall/a path of acnm/vent (call it whatever east of d dome) then flare+osok or flare+long range gunz or l3 blindly or demo goes to ninja it in free time and team is still safe. and you can run to fort after or stay there for bo and pray for good queen spawn as sy is kinda bad for fighting queen

    i feel sorry for ppl you play with not knowing how to reload manually if you need nuke or bombin. hmgs+some hks+most likely bar and shotguns clear alpha spawns in no time not to mention faith panic button or inferno as ac can be tanked by both tree flamers ez pez.

    in eu we do sec with up to 5 randoms allowed.
    we need 3things tech with dog, sup chem, amm rest can do whatever for most part. chem does most of trigging if no pf. it can be way more relaxed than you think. people need to know what they do or it will fail indeed but it isnt so much of following a script not for whole team at least

    surv needs dps end of story.
    tech with spark+net handles gotb. napalm+shock handles gotb. napalm+tech does. 2techs do. and i have nm gotb in mind. that means 2people of team need to follow script rest just need to be effective and ammo-efficient in killing things with whatever they want
  5. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Well, it seems like your difficulty in Easy Company is mostly Dome D related by what you typed up Trrrr. And even then it sounds like it's not Difficult so much as Requiring you to follow a specific plan because that's what you know and that's what you're comfortable with. I do agree that Easy Company is the hardest one though, but for different reasons. Mostly because it is the storyline where you are on the move the most and in my experience where games tend to go down the toilet is on Movement Segments. Someone gets antsy and rushes ahead, getting ambushed by a Zoombie Pack with no help nearby. Someone lags behind and gets sniped out by the following hordes. The only real "movement" section for the team as a whole in Apollo Security Team is the running at the start (Which is one place I often see people flub sadly enough), and HAL Shutdown (Which again is the one place I really see people flub it). In Alpha Company it's the Gas Sequence (Which again is the one place I see people flub it). But Easy Company has the Airlock Civ Escort (Occasionally where I see people bite it), Post Erebos Mark I hike to the Fort (Where I see about 70% of the Easy Company Nitemare Deaths), escaping from Apollo (Unless you fort or scrap camped during the whole thing) and chasing down a Runner Queen (Again, where some people sadly bite it considering it's so close to the end).

    It's the movement sections that screw people. Also why Surv tends to be somewhat hard in that it involves a lot of On the Run segments. People die when they're supposed to be running typically, not while curled up in one of the camping spots. Well unless there was a serious DPS lacking/defense lacking and they gave the Enemy Forces/Machine Wave high ground sight on them or something.
  6. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    I disagree with the alpha difficulty, although i prefer playing alpha it only goes well when the team knows what there doing. You get a bunch of good players in a lobby and its ganna be a laid bavk game even with mobs, in at least ec and ac as long as you make it past the first 30 min your peobably going to win.

    Some people only play with a select group of friends clan members or senior olayers, and when you do that its cool and all but the games not going to be as difficult even with scaling difficulty as everyone knows how to survive well.

    Play more with noobs and teach them how to play if you really want a challenge, take them into alpha and appollo and show them how to do it, maybe even try teaching them the mechanics.
    Any nm game can be easy if you have the right team, alpha may be slightly easier but its probably more due to going nearly the same route every single game, and having a good crew to do it with.
  7. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    30minutes ec and u probably win? not really. Its always a hussle ec nm. Say 1 hugger left in lab and u have no back up as demo, say queen spawns on ur ass... can be a mess, while chasing queen it usually gets messy. In ac the only "hard" part is after vents where ppl that dont know 2 stick close always get hugged.
  8. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Not exactly what I ment, and what you said can be true but the game will be pretty well defined after about 30 minutes and you will be able to tell (not all the time but frequently) if its going to be a fail or not.

    Yes unexpected things can happen, but when you have practiced it enough and already have counter measures (not the skill), and a plan B, it shouldnt be too bad.

    I understand what your saying and I probably should have been more clear but I don't change my opinion.
    When you have practiced the routes* enough, and your team has done the same.

    Damn vagueness, if everyone knows what to do, and does it efficiently even suprises wont stop you.
  9. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    Well with extensive playing of all the storylines im going to give you the current storyline rundown. (nm modes)

    Ec -
    For a long long time people have misslabeled ec as the hardest storyline, when in fact with the right team its borderline easiest. Ec is really commanded at least on the NA side of things by 3 classes, Demo tank, FS Engy, and ops mando. With good players who know what exactly to do on these three roles, you can steamrole ez company. Problem is when you lose one of them, anyone of them it doesnt matter, shit just got 50x harder. Lose 2 and well you can almost call it gg. Not to long ago i got a group together of some of the best players (+2400sr) on na and attmepted what i call EC NM misfits version, basically exped classes that are the opposite of the norm (DPS rofle, Nanomed, Asstank, Explo demo, SMM, Mob REcon, Combat engi and delta mando). I challenge anybody to beat a high sr ec nm with that run, it will become and actually deserve the title most difficult storyline =P. We made it to the queen fighting bravely but a untimely frenzy while i was hurtin bad (as tank) made me sleepy and i had to lie down. When i woke up everybody was dead =/.

    Alfa - often called the easiest storyline and with good reason, its almost completely carried by one class. Order flamer, smite = win all you have to know, sure the minor classes play there parts moreso than they do in ec, but as long as your flamer is alive your pretty good on your chance to win. Alfa is also easier than other stoyelines on the scaling of the mob/bosses hitpoints because you have 2 % damage attackers alfa (smite/osok) instead of just one in the others (osok). If you want to make alfa a more difficult storyline there is one solution for you, nerf the order bat a bit and do nothing to the actual storyline. If you dont believe me breeze through a high sr alfa with an exped lineup with order bat then take the same team and switch to dps bat, i guarentee you it will be a much more difficult game. Don't come to me saying well thats just cause dps flamer is no good cause thats he a lie, he is good just not compared to the alternative. When tank bat can out dps dps bat with one skill (smite), then i think you have discovered your problem, but thats enough of my soapbox on balance for this.

    Aporro -

    The most difficult storyline easily, and as it should be. Apollo is difficult on such an extreme basis because its carried by EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ON THE TEAM. you have a weak link? well the rest of the team just has to work that much harder, which is why apollo is great and also why now as the game dies down and much of the best players have moved on, a pain. The exploits of gs chem and osok mm temporarily made this story a joke, but as balance slowly fixes it, it will again become feared. The only real way to make apollo the beast it once was is balance issues.

    Basically in summary all 3 storylines (and no i dont count arcade mode, sorry survival, as a storyline) main problems is balance issues involving classes. My suggestion is this, for a long long time the game has been balanced around the characters, when instead the characters should be balanced around the game. What this has done has effectively made some classes unplayable becasue the game has been tried to balance around the other tree on that class. Take a high sr apollo with smm instead of amm its just not possible anymore. High level alphas become 100x harder without an order flamer, or try a high level apollo (B) with deso chem instead of gs.

    But all in all balance is a fickle bitch and impossible to get entirely right so i guess we just have to do the best we can =P
  10. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    I love you lulz
  11. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Thing is you are comparing it with good squad. We have good squad yesterday, we had no remakes except once in ec nm.(took to long at picking classes n getting behind wall) Anyway, with the right squad none of the storylines are hard. Infact they are all a joke. The only "difficult" one would be surv since it requires you to find a weapon for lelas, you have a weapon for them you've won pretty easily.

    For new players to certain modes. Makes the game harder :p
  12. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Yea we did quite well yesterday a full NOTD story runthrough at 2k sr nm starting with Sec and ending with Surv.

    I think we did get lucky a few times, but generally things were more on the easy side.

    Admittedly we had a team which was probably capable of doing it at max sr but chose a lower SR, but 2k sr is still fairly high and at that level I would normally expect things to be a bit tougher.

    Making the game tougher of course does not mean making individual units brutally powerful but tweaking a few things here and there which together add up to giving the storylines a bit more difficulty.
  13. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    I choose to lower my rating from 2500 to 1800 and below. Hench it really gives no reward to have such a high rating. "oh bonus speed" Well I have 2 extra lives now. Can't beat that. :p (even doe i hardly die) Least I has something just incase. If high rating was to give a decent bonus, eg give higher reward for more sq but making the game much more difficult then would make sense. 2500sq isnt that hard of a game, been there done that.
  14. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Well I got to ask those who think high SQ is "easy". Do you have weapon mods, did you buy ANY items and did you random out of story classes? IF so, yes the game is easy for you now, the game is NOT balanced around any of the above. By virtue of having a team with more then 4 weapon mods among all of you (top teams have half the team rocking 6+ mods, and 1 person with max mods), you have just automatically made the game about 10x easier IMO. Buy weapons or any gear for that matter and... yeah...

    I would suggest, do an story run though, no buying any gear, no randoms and remove ALL weapon mods. I imagine, although not impossible, will be somewhat more difficult. If you go further and dump all CP bonuses while you are at it (game is not balanced around those either), game will be harder still (probably only slightly).

    End of the day, game is balanced around people with next to none of the long term perks (bought equipment, weapon mods, large number of stat points, randoming out of story classes, CP bonuses), so once acquired, the cumulative effect is enough to make large parts of the game easier.
  15. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Very true.

    And I suppose Stats is another issue there as well. High xp teams = more stats = easier than low xp.

    Out of story randoms we sometimes get but not always.

    Weapon mods - well i think everyone on our team has like at least 2 and a few with max or near max :p

    Still, I do wonder whether at SR above 2k, especially at max of 2.4, that should be factored in - indirectly that is. I.e don't balance/implement classes/talents which are aimed at being able to deal with 2.4k SR. Aim them at an average of 1.7k SR instead so the game remains challenging at low SR rather than being a cakewalk.
  16. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Agree with AP and Ghost.

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