Statlock and Stat Selection

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Kith, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Blah blah blah blah blah. Think ahead. There's usually CC i dont see what prevents you from choosing a tree + stats before hand. Also you can pick 1st what you do.


    Also 1 minute after 1 class has been picked mobs come. Meaning a stat lock should happen then. However what's the point for that?
    Randoming has 0 penalty/chance of back firing. It gives extra ammo, chances of outside storyline class. Randomizing a class that a player may not like isn't a penalty. If randoming is the only reason you don't approve of this frankly I don't see it as a good enough reason.
    Another thing is that if you require stats to actually win then news flash, you don't. They make it easier but also are optional. Complaining and making a big scene out of this just because of "randoms" is silly reasoning. Random is also optional. You want to pick stats before? Pick your class don't random simple as.


    Also luck isn't bringing DTs is just bringing A single DT.

    Question: what about mods? Will those have current timing to fix? Since to buy one you buy it after char pick :D.
    Unless you make mod shop open from start? Weapon mods much as stats can be abused. Less, but can.
  2. Ginger Gerald

    Ginger Gerald Well-Known Member

    Then I suppose I'm remembering wrong. I could have sworn that in the Luck thread you said that the chance for a DT was going to be incredibly low, and at lower character levels would be even lower.

    The point remains, how is locking the points on class selection significantly better than locking them after a couple of seconds but before anything happens? The player has a 9% chance, a little under 1 in 10 chance of getting their ONLY DT for the entire game with the CP bonus, either way. So players could switch their stats to something else. So what? People who didn't get a DT but still want to can leave their points in luck, anybody else, can switch.

    Is that really such a big deal? Let me say this again, a little under 1 in 10 chance. So, about once every 10 games unless you're lucky. Ha ha.

    A "generalized" stat build that goes against the idea of specialization even with stat points.

    Kith, making players lock their stat points on class selection is not cool in my books, at all. A stat that I'm sure will be mainly used by people who have points to throw around. A stat that I was against from the start. It reduces potential adaptability. Sure, you can play without stats, but a person specced with the right stats is better than a person with all their points tied up in other shit because they forgot to change their stats before class selection, just for example.

    I stand by my point, I think it's a fucking terrible idea, but if it happens I'll just shut up and accept it since I'll have no other choice.
  3. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    You aren't making any valid reasons.
    If you forget to restat before picking your class chances are u will forget for 1st minute or 2.
    You couldve just quoted what I said "nothing happens until after 1min" which would give you 1minute to stat after class pick.
    You're saying having the chance to get the only dt+ lives is small so it wouldn't matter much at the start, so why u hate the idea so much? Is it because you're so used 2 stat changing as u please?
    You can play with no stat, so it means having any stat is beneficial therefore contradicting yourself.
    You stand by your point which has not much sense. Swearing doesn't fortify it either.
  4. Ginger Gerald

    Ginger Gerald Well-Known Member

    My reasons are valid in my own mind.

    Potentially true, but not always the case.
    I'm used to being adaptable in games, changing my stat points to reflect the way I want to play the class I'm using based on team comp and tree selection.
    The entire point of this thread and idea to prevent abuse, there has always been abuse of stat points, or other systems that have been available, there will always be some sort of exploit or abuse that is possible, that will be performed. Primarily used by "veteran" players to gain an advantage or because they think its fun. Especially with the using Strength to heal.

    Having any stat is beneficial, but a Crofl with 9 perception is better than a Crofl with 9 strength or endurance, which was my point. A tank with 9 strength or endurance is better than a tank with 9 perception. Stats are beneficial by nature, but certain stats are more useful on certain classes or types. I contradict nothing.

    My swearing is an expression of my irritation and is also used for emphasis.
  5. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    I lost track. What is this argument even about? Luck as a stat? Or stats locking with character selection?

    Stats being selected during the class selection menu prevents abuse (of stats), and having them lock once you select / random a class, means there will be no possibility for abuse. You won't be able to change out luck if you don't get lucky and you won't be able to STR heal.

    Luck is going in, and this has been decided for a long time (By Kithrixx). The reason the old INT double-talent was OP, was because you still had consolidation of extra max energy, so it wasn't like you lost anything from not getting the DT proc. With the new Luck stat, you would lose up to 9 stat points if you don't get a DT proc or Life Proc.

    With Luck, no longer would a fully medal'd fully ranked player be able to max out all of his stat points. This means that at the very end game, stat distribution doesn't follow the same exact pattern of 9 in everything, Having luck in the mix makes many new possibilities for that.

    _________________________________________________________________
    Scorpione raised a valid point about Weapon Mods.

    Will Weapon Mods become directly purchasable during Character selection, as well as re-distributable? Or will it simply be distributable during Character selection with you having to start a new game after purchasing a mod in order to use it?
  6. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    What would it matter for example if you choose to do pyro instead of order giving the chance? In that case only stat u mainly need is int which you would with order bat too and nothing is effected. The classes that mainly requires different skill set between trees are: assault, pf, mando.
    Tank assa doesn't need perc, agi int aswell that much. While dps does. Pf jump doesnt require more than 4int most of the times while guns does. Mando ops doesn't need any int, while delta doesn't need any endurance. If you have 18 stat points you can take 9 int 9str/endu/agi and for most class you are covered. Also you don't need max. You could have per say int maxed while rest stats are 2 2 2 2 9 1(with luck).
    All stats are useful no matter the class. Just because other types of classes benefit more from specific set of stat doesn't make those stats less useful on a class.
    A crifle with 9 perception is actually shit. U only need 4 to hit max % with pseudo by 3rd shot. More is a waste. Same goes for a smm. If you can't make crit chance from 34% to 50% or 100% then its pointless. 34% means 3rd is crit(if there wasn't any crit), 50% means 2nd is crit, 100% means all are crits. Having values in between is a waste. Thus having 39% sucks. You've successfully wasted 5 stats.
    Apart from assa tanks don't really need endurance.They don't get alignments from mainly being shield tanks/alignment healers etc. You'd be wasting stats. Is only good to have if you have no medic and/or cant trust your team. Its like if I pick 9 agility... but I always do gold/blue rlds.. pointless waste of stats.

    So you're saying because there will always be a way to abuse something we shouldn't bother to prevent any of those? Then we would all have max mods by now. Shit ton of xp too. Just because exploiting some old systems was a thing, such as -em.

    Ive used the stat heal myself. Mainly because I didn't want to "waste" the kits, which I didn't end up using at the end.
    Also it doesn't just allow healing, allowed no kit carrying while scouting, putting agi until stat lock and so on.
    Consider re-evaluating your reasons.
  7. Ginger Gerald

    Ginger Gerald Well-Known Member

    The argument is about locking it in. I don't see how locking in on class selection is significantly better than locking in the stat points after a shorter amount of time, preferably before combat actually begins, at like 45-60 seconds. The only potential abuse that could exist in that situation is getting an incredibly lucky DT with 9 points in Luck upon spawning with a CP bonus. A fucking 9% chance, a little under 1 out of 10 chance. Ideally and mathematically, you would be getting your ONLY DT for the ENTIRE game, 1 time out of every 10 games. The people who still want the benefits from luck can leave their points in it, everybody else can freely change.

    I'm just repeating myself now. Whatever, just....Whatever. Make stats lock on class selection, I don't care anymore.
  8. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Yawn, you are repeating yourself and without a valid reason to do so. You are saying: give 8 players a 9% chance to get a DT and an extra life chance too for what?. What are we risking that for? Just your own personal preference? I could even agree if I saw a valid reason. Because making a stat lock at 60seconds would work. But no reason to do so. Except facilitating randoms to have them stat. Which I for one do not want. Randoms until screen lock and even then are only rewarding.
  9. Ginger Gerald

    Ginger Gerald Well-Known Member

    The only valid reason for repeating a statement is an attempt to get a point across. My point is I don't see the fucking need for the stats to lock at class selection. I think it's complete unnecessary, and I despise that it's even being considered because of the addition of a stat that I think is a waste, but it didn't matter if it was a waste as long as it wasn't causing any changes to the systems I liked and was fine with. I think it's a goddamn waste, that's my point, thats what I've been saying since the fucking start, and feel that locking in stats after a time limit is a better idea.

    It is more or less personal preference, I however refuse to go into details on it at the moment.

    But now, I'm done caring. Call me when it gets finalized.
  10. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    Erm... I would like to point out that in order to spawn with stat points spent in DT, you would have had to arrange them that way from the previous game... so I don't think this is a serious problem no matter which system you implement.

    As far as "how many buttons you have to press to get through the menu's" issue, all your doing is pseudo-incorporating the pause + cc into the game, which I see no problem in because it promotes/demands team-work and gets newer players used to the idea of "hold the fuck up and see what the team needs" rather than "auto-pick mm/fo fuck you all." Also, it saves somebody at least one pause, if not upwards of 4 or 5 because of derp pause/unpausing from picking and such.
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Actually, one can set stats before character selection.

    As for Weapon Mods, that's a good question. I'd say that they lock as well, and have the purchase of a Weapon Mod Point moved to the Weapon Mod page rather than have it in the shop.

    I'm glad you're done caring, because you need to chill the fuck out.
  12. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    And believe me ppl will use it. I do use stat heal all the time, and i'm sure i will pump points into luck and if it procs DT before statlock i will pull them out, as i couldn't care less about lives.
    To put it bluntly, i would strongly consider even doing some remakes in ec -nm untill demo gets stupid DT on initial lvl up if stats were to lock 45-60s into game just coz faster TTD makes life easier in a way i play it. Not to mention it opens a chance of demo getting firevuln on high sr if he won't fill up fort tree (and skiping one sadist/spiked armor or 2spiked armor wont kill him).

    I do abuse stuff, be it stats or bosses popping like baloons to certain weapons or skill combinations. It IS efficient and being efficient is what i like.


    When it comes to initial lock of stats concerning random as it is now only drawback of random is you can end up with 3 of a class if more people random. I don't see a problem with adding next '-' to random as it can make games a walk in the park. [you ever done domes in ec -nm while apollo remained closed? psi ops teleport allows it, and that ball of agrons/hulks/immortals looks hilarious and can't touch you]
  13. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Stats will be locked after 1st Talent is assigned. Let me know if any violent objections. Moving this to NOTD Discussion.

    Rationale
    - Lock at class selection has issues for random players, and it reduces the organic starting flow of the game (more time in menus)
    - Time based model will always be too short for some, too long for others
    - With Lock on 1st Talent assigned, people can play at their own pace. It's hardly abusable because people won't walk around with unspent talent points (doesn't make sense in NOTD - cons outweigh the pros)
  14. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I am perfectly okay with this.
  15. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Hm? Don't agree with the last point.
    I can use 9 luck until i get the dt. For most classes that actually durable. Especially since in certain scenarios u dont need to use a talent until like 10-30minutes.
  16. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Can use Marine Level 3 as a 2nd talent lock condition.
  17. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Make getting a DT or extra life the 3rd talent lock condition.
  18. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

  19. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

  20. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    lol I know, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously >.> lol

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