Statlock and Stat Selection

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Kith, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Shamelessly stolen from a conversation between Arcane and I over Steam.

    The long story short is that I'd like to see stats be choosable during Class Selection (more intuitive to the players, reminds them that stats are there to be chosen), and lock after a class has been chosen.

    All in all, simple stuff. It'd prevent a lot of abuses, especially with the Luck and Strength stats.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    You already know everyone's answer already. :)
  3. MissHumpz
    • Event Coordinator
    • Community Leader

    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

    What about those who love to random? If stats lock after a class is chosen, people who random won't really get to assign the stats that would be ideal for whatever class they end up with.

    Perhaps, pick class first, then assign stats (on a tab similar to that of the class pick tab) and then lock it? I'm assuming that all stats will be set to 0 at the start of each game, so it would be mandatory to assign them at the start of the game, or risk playing with 0 stats.
  4. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Then maybe your stats should be random too :D
    You can put stats evenly. like 1 1 1 1 1. Frankly random is beneficial more than negative. You have chance to get a class outside storyline, and you get extra 15mags. Also both stats and randomizing are optional.
  5. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Randoms will have to deal. And no, stats will not be set to 0 every game. Your previous setups will remain, just as they do now.
  6. MissHumpz
    • Event Coordinator
    • Community Leader

    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

    Okay awesome, doesn't hinder my gaming experience at all then ^-^
  7. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Basically randoming means you're trading the ability to customize your stats to your class for 10 mags and the possibility of getting out of storyline classes or Otis.
  8. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    You're damn right it doesn't. Randoms getting preferential treatment opens up an ugly can of worms called "stat abuse" that locking stats after class selection can comfortably close. Considering the numerous bonuses that Randoms already get (more ammo, potential for out-of-storyline classes), there is no problem.
  9. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    What if we included a mechanic where after you pick your class, you don't spawn until player 1 or 2 clicks a "go" button to actually start the campaign after cc. That way everybody can pick their class, set their stats, and wait for everybody else to be ready, and would remove the issue of stats for randoming. This would also eliminate the need for the pause at the beginning of the game because you would just make the campaign clocks start after the person presses "go."

    Still allow people to pick after the person presses to go. That way players don't get left behind just because you have a dick host or something.
  10. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Nah. I'd like to keep things at a relatively fast pace at the beginning - NOTD is already a very long game.
  11. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Isnt all you need to solve the random issue that you select stats after the class?
    Why do you have to do both in one step?
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    So you have the class selection screen and then once you choose you class you get a screen with a picture of your class and your stats, which you can change there, before you click Okay. Then you spawn. So it's usually just you select your class and then click Okay.
  13. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Because, as it's been mentioned multiple times, Random gives players plenty of bonuses already. They can deal with spreading out their stat selection or running the risk of choosing the wrong stats. I'd like the current amount of clicks required to start a match to remain as it is now.
  14. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    So your reason against it is that it needs 1 more click to get past the class selection/stats distribution page?

    And the fact that random has its bonuses doesnt justify it either unless you say that randoming is to strong and this is actually wanted as a form of malus for randoming.
  15. Ginger Gerald

    Ginger Gerald Well-Known Member

    Sigh, I'm against it, incredibly against it. I like to pick my character and then adjust my stats accordingly to how I'm going to play, that game. It's been suggested like 30 times to just make the stat points lock in earlier, why can't it just be like 1-2 minutes in the game locks, why not use the popular sensible suggestion instead of changing it to a system just to prevent potential stat abusers, who have existed since the beginning of time, and fuck people who play random?

    This would also increase the required coordination of players to get the right classes, with the right points put in the right spot. No more "Oh, what are you going? Oh? Okay, then I'll go ____" and switching your stat points to adjust accordingly. Every game you'd have to think about what class to play, how you plan to play it from the start, and adjust your stat points in a matter of seconds (without pausing) before the first waves of enemies spawn.

    I say, go with the solution that's been suggested 30 times or more and just make the lock-in sooner. Is it not possible to "fix" a problem being abused by some assholes without giving a large percentage of the non-abusing players the middle finger? Is that no longer a thing?
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    One of the reasons, yes. Often during game development there are groups dedicated to making gameplay happen with the least amount of menu interaction. Believe it or not, this is important.

    Randoming is not too strong, but it is incredibly good. Randoming is a gamble, but a gamble in the player's favor. There is 0 chance that the player will get a class that cannot be useful in some capacity, there's a decent chance that the player will get an out-of-storyline class, and they get free ammunition. If the player decides to Random, they are taking a small risk for potentially enormous rewards, and I'd prefer we make the risk somewhat larger.

    Because NOTD isn't designed around people who play Random. Just because a certain group plays a certain way does not mean we should cater to their whims. I played SuperPet in :AM for nearly a year, but just because I did that doesn't mean Ace should've updated the map with the ability to choose to play as a Pet from the start. Stats are a bonus. Not having perfect stats will not ruin your game. The stat points locking after character selection is, realistically, the quickest and easiest way to solve stat abuse while having the added benefit of reminding the player that the stats are there. Many newbies don't even know it exists, and many vets have a habit of forgetting to respec.

    A matter of seconds? Are we playing the same game? There's about a minute and a half of absolutely nothing happening for each storyline's beginning.

    Locking in sooner doesn't solve the upcoming Luck/CP issue, nor does it solve early game facetanking/strength healing. Locking in at class selection solves the most problems and creates virtually none. Randoms getting their toes stepped on honestly does not concern me because of two things:

    1. Stats are not necessary to complete the game. For almost a year I played Asstank exclusively, and not once did I put points into Strength or Endurance.
    2. It's not like I'm proposing we REMOVE stats for Random players, simply that we make them think ahead a little more and adapt to a more generalized stat layout that would be effective for all classes.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Ginger Gerald

    Ginger Gerald Well-Known Member

    Whatever Kith. Just...whatever, it's gonna happen or its not gonna happen, and that's all it's going to come down to.

    As far as "a minute and a half of absolutely nothing", with in game speed, thats about a minute, or less, and that time goes by relatively fast.

    How does locking in after say, 1:45 not solve an issue of the upcoming Luck stat? Or, even less than that? If you make the lock-in happen, before "absolutely nothing" happens, then whats the issue? People potentially gaining a DT from starting at lvl 2 because of CP with what was it? Less than 2% chance to get it?

    I'm damn sick and tired of people abusing shit at the expense of other peoples' enjoyment, and confused and irritated just thinking about why it needs to be done. Probably making it a bigger deal that it is, but I'm damn tired of adapting and just accepting changes to games I like because some shit heads decided to find a way to abuse a "flaw" in gameplay. I'm also confused about your suggestion of a "generalized stat build", that goes against the idea of specialization and adaptation. The whole premise of this confuses me, and irritates me.

    But fucking whatever...If it happens, it happens.
  18. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Because luck is going to bring back DTs. If you have cp in a class, you level up literally as soon as you spawn. If we want to prevent people from going into luck at the start and then switching out once they get a DT, we would have to have the stats lock within the first second of the game. Can you change your stats in less than a second? No. So instead you get to change your stats before you pick your class.
  19. Ginger Gerald

    Ginger Gerald Well-Known Member

    ...You are aware that by giving them their stats before they spawn, with cp they will spawn at lvl 2, (if I'm correct in my understanding of the luck stat) with a chance for a DT since they have technically leveled up. Literally spawning with a chance of a DT. How is that better than locking stats in a couple of seconds after the game starts, before quite literally anything happens? That way people can still change their stats according to class, and perhaps tree situation, but the people who choose luck, have to stick with it.

    You do keep your previous stat setup when you spawn on default, but starting at lvl 2 with 9 points in luck, if I remember correctly, is less than a 1.5% chance to proc a DT.

    I don't even...
  20. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    1.5%? Dogg, you misread Luck by a lot. That's 1% per point, so it's as much as 9%. Luck is about gambling with your stat points, and allowing players to make a safe gamble by sacrificing absolutely nothing and potentially gaining a ton of power is not cool by my books.

    Also, yes. A "generalized" stat build involves dumping points into Intelligence and Agility. It is "generalized" because all classes can benefit directly from these two stats. Perception can be useful as well. Strength and Endurance are really only important for tank classes.

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