Stat Healing

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jercy, Feb 10, 2012.

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  1. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    stats should be locked at 2 minutes.

    Not enough time to drop everything into intelligence for the DT chance while you gain 5 levels rapidly, then switching over to something more useful towards your class.

    Locking at 2 minutes also means you set your stats before the game really starts, or you'll never get a chance to.

    That being said, I will abuse the fuck out of any glitch/cheat in the game in order to win.
  2. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    If a person is telling you to stat heal when they are next to you and have some form of medical supplies then feel free to tell them to drop that. I've had to deal with asking for said medical supplies and never receiving it even before tartarus starts, where I fear for the fate of a game. I've used it before, and it was done to prevent having to waste time of others. Of course a person doing some sort of stupid stunt and dieing as a result drives the lesson home harder, but I would rather not have to play a game with less people then neccessary / RM.

    The last time I used it was a month or two ago. Its stupid that people don't share Medical supplies. I've died from a bad situation that occurred when people refused to share medical supplies; now I carry Medkits on me in case I do need them, and I haven't bothered caring about stat healing at all early on in games.

    I see it as an issue with how SC2 operates on adding to the maximum health. Its the same as March of the Machine, the scale is just different. If your current health didn't increase when your max health did, you would be at 300 hp out of 1500 hp for march of the machine when you start it. The same mechanic is at play for Stat Healing.

    As for Survival Model; it is a heavily exploitable mechanic without some sort of time / event restriction stopping the usage of it.

    Its a mechanic in-place with the game that can be abused, no different then that one person who posted about PO being able to teleport to non-heroic units and GG an ally w/ Speed of Thought and as a result, enter a zone still un-opened or from when Demo could Satchel his way into Lab, or even further back from when you could GG the laser rifles out of lab. If you want, we can go back to even older abusable mechanics, but that is not the point of the thread, is it?

    The poll should not be biased in favor of having it called a cheat either (that is what the parentheses and the text inside of it does).
    Maybe I should have read the poll a bit clearer while and voted when I wasn't sleep deprived.
  3. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    I used to abuse stats when I was a newbie back in september just to make it easier to tank stuff pre-tartarus. I have not changed my stats since then (except at the beginning, taking 1 out of agi and putting it into per for vet/nm and back again for pubs). In pubs I always sprint ahead and snatch the first few medkits, no matter what class I am. This is because if I'm tanking and people stay where I can see them, I will be the only one to take hits, and otherwise I don't trust people to share their medical supplies with the newbies who do take hits. This is why I supported the suggestion to put something on the marine actions card that allows one to use a medkit on others (so I could hoard them from the beginning and use them on people as necessary).

    Many people have defined stat healing as an exploit, but not actually cheating. To them I would show the definition of exploit:

    exploit: vb - to take advantage of (a person, situation, etc), esp unethically or unjustly for one's own ends. (

    Even if stat exploitation is not defined as cheating, it is still unethical and unjust and I would not want to play someone who keeps this as an option in their repertoire of safety nets.
  4. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Yup - Survival stats should be locked after Wave 1 in a patch tomorrow.
  5. Zuriel

    Zuriel Well-Known Member

    If stats are to be locked within the first 30 s of game, I think there should be a reminder of sorts to remind players to choose their stats.
  6. TsukinoUsagi

    TsukinoUsagi Well-Known Member

    I miss Contra.
    The life cheat is like written: Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A Start, wasn't it?:blush:
  7. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    Give me at least 5 minutes!
    I alt tab to facebook quite frequently and might miss the 30 sec - 2 minute time frame of stat locking!
  8. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Stats generally lock a lot earlier now.
    2 mins for Survival, After MB in EC, At Charlie in AC, not sure when in Sec but guessing Deimos.

    But for EC at least in Newb mode, there really should be something flashy at the start telling players:
    1. Where to find stats
    2. How to assign stats
    3. That they lock
    4. That they can be reassigned before lock and next game
    5. How you gain stats
    6. That stats are permanent and carry over

    You'd be surprised how often you can spam the chat with "click stats on the team bar and use arrow keys" and maybe 1 or 2 newbs listen or get what you mean. A lot actually say "I can't find it" or find the talent tree instead and think that's what you mean.

    To be honest, stats are also kind of misleading. When I read it, it suggests to me that stats are how you did the previous games, total games won, zombies waxed etc. Part of the stats window does that (for credits, xp, progress).
    But the points are really "attributes" rather than stats.
  9. Emperor

    Emperor New Member

    I just don't change mine, ever.
  10. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Jercy I can see where your coming from and I mostly agree. There is exactly one situation where I try to avoid stat heal, but resort to it anyhow: Apollo NM. Team A by definition has no meds what so ever to heal themselves, and the agron arrangement can lead to someone getting hit regardless of what you do (go down ramp to door, open door, surprise Agron charges you on creep, you get 2 OW and major damage.

    Yes it was abused like nuts in survival, but honestly, most don't even play survival to win, they played for fast credits, medal, and now to screw around with any class. Stat healing helped but would not permit you to win survival in any form.

    Is it an exploit? Yes. Should players be taught more reliable long term ways to live (Kite, Use kits, have a good medic)? Yes. Will players do anything to ease difficulty and survive to either win or simply prevent Yet Another NM RM for MoH? Yes. I see stat healing in early game as a way to counter the random trolling that can get thrown your way that would force a RM (Agrons in Apollo, early nydus Worms).

    For me personally, hacking = Big No No. Using exploits is fine AS LONG AS YOU REPORT THEM. For example, Nite almost immediately reported the 36 TP bug to Ability, but still used it productively to help pubs (Turbo Medic/Recon). We obviously used it for our joke NM Solo Run. Me and Arch experimented with it in survival, which did make it easier for us, but we didn't need it (evidence being the 2 replays of us winning with no help at all).
  11. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Exploitation is cheating. Abuse of bugs is cheating. Anyone who used the 36 talent bug before Ability announced that it would be a Valentines Day gift until he got a chance to fix his mistake (or that didn't know that he did) is technically liable to be added to the Community Watch. I will not report anyone, but those of you who abuse stat healing and bugs, know that you are on the same level as hackers.
  12. grandmarshal

    grandmarshal New Member

    The only time other than tank who NEEDS to use stats healing are people making STUPID mistakes & cut to pieces.

    On the other hand, they pay for their mistakes with a massive rating losses.

    Fair Trade...
  13. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Opens his mouth to mention there's a way to code HP reflected buffs so they won't add health when toggled. Let's it slide.
  14. DrawingDead

    DrawingDead Member

    Then put my ass on community watch. I am the biggest stat healer out there. You are too judgmental Ozy. You need to look at other peoples point of views before slamming down the hammer that is your opinion.

    Before posting your sharp accusations you should look at why people stat heal. You should realize that probably 90% of the time it is due to lack of kits or bandaids. Yes if you get hit early on it is your stupidity most of the time but in apollo sec there is not much you can do. I say because we don't start with kits in apollo sec stat healing is ok in my eyes. All the forced remakes out of our control are annoying as it is, if we can save 15 minutes of bullshittery I say stat heal. In EC what can you do with noob medic and noob player who takes all the kits and you get hit? What good does that do if you just die?

    As far as the 36 talents bug goes it was essentially harmless because bad people still died. They also whored experience and starved the team so in the end they lost anyway. Jercy and I tried doing a solo nm speed run challenge but clearly that isn't exactly easy even with dual t3's maxed. I would say with or without Ability's approval the bug did not allow people to exploit anything out of games that they couldn't already do.

    If you're walking in the desert and come across 1,000$ do you report it to the police? I sure don't.
  15. grandmarshal

    grandmarshal New Member

    Don't get me wrong here. I not against stat heal cos I do stat heal. Stat heal comes in useful when u r hit by parasites.

    I saying that most of time people who do stat heal are people making stupid mistakes & pay with huge rating loss. It's a fair trade compared to dead. :)
  16. DrawingDead

    DrawingDead Member

    I agree with you grandmarshal, I don't agree with Ozy trying to witch hunt what would be probably 90% of "vets" over use of something given to all of us since the beginning. It is currently a tool in our arsenal so why not use it?
  17. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    This thread is making no progress in either direction and is not likely to make any progress at any point in the forseeable future. Lock it please.
  18. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Oh you be silent, you lost your argument and now you want me to lock the thread. But, the squirt does have a point. The fact is the community as whole is extremely torn on the issue and there is no plan to resolve the issue either way.

    The Stat healing "exploit" as it shall be known is not going to be fixed anytime in the near future. It CAN be fixed by newer/better coding of the stats mechanic, but this is a long way down a very long list. So for the short term it is a legitimate gameplay mechanic, however the amount of so called "skill" or "integrity" those who use it possess remains up to the individuals. Since stat healing is overridden early in a campaign, it cannot be deemed severe enough to warrant calling it "abuse." It's merely one of many tactics that falls into a very grey area. It is also an extremely old issue, older than almost every player currently on the forum. So, we just successfully argued about something that hasn't changed in well over a year.

    The long and short is yes, by definition it is a glitch, but no, as it is not important enough to warrant immediate fixing, it can be for all intents and purposes considered intentional. Hence forth, all discussion on the subject is out of the public eye. If you wish to argue it further, take to other mediums, I will be deleting any further threads on it.
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