Spam classes quality of life change suggestion

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by JohnyM, Feb 21, 2017.

  1. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    SMM and Demolitions are classes with spam skill that have no "skill factor" in it.
    Ie: Assault concentrated fire allow you to either hold the button and draw your mana, or time the skill properly and be able to sustain it for much longer. Same goes for riflaman focused fire.

    Lets look at SMM and Demo:
    12 sec cooldown 12 sec duration - SMM cloak - require finger on "E" whole the time when scouting / dps'ing. If you have no macro/antighosting ur in trouble.

    8 sec duration, 8 seconds cooldown - Demolitions IMA - miss taunt for a second, someone get raped. If you have no macro/antighosting ur in trouble.

    There is no reason why those skill should not be toggleable as they are required to be constantly ON like con cloak matrix, with short periods of OFF to recharge.
  2. Pickles

    Pickles New Member

    Hey Jm, is this in your other list?
  3. stanK

    stanK Member

    Wont give names, but some players claimed they used macros to workaround this issue. So giving taunt/cloak autocast would grant everyone same advantage.
  4. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    It's not in "other list" as those 2 chages i see as important, and list is "would be nice".
    All of those things were discussed on discord, and were generally appreciated by active players. Those topics are prolly only for ArcanePariah, so he can see the reasoning, support from players, and he can give it a green light.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  5. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    Agree. All levels should be toggleable. Level 1 and 2 cloak should both lose energy, but level 1 much faster than level 2. IYF duration being less than 7 seconds on lower difficulties is BS anyway.

    I see no reason not to extend the same courtesy to asstank, which is heavily underused, and infinitely worse than demo: nano shield is instant heal, shield takes prevents OW+venom+cripple, taunt is always on. I can't name anything that asstank is better at than demo other than passive tanking queen without taunt.

    Can we remove the exhaust cloud from taunts? Level 1 and 2 IYF also have this removed.
  6. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    I think the asstank is expected to give that 1 sec taunt gap (hence armor + aura and charge stun to supplement). It used to be 2 seconds gap, but was rightly so changed.

    IMO asstank should be able to constataunt as his mana regen is already limiting enough - but thats another topic.
  7. Stereo
    • Development Team

    Stereo Paper Boy

    Does allowing these abilities to have an auto-cast function not do anything?
  8. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    Not do anything? Did you ever played demo tank?
  9. Stereo
    • Development Team

    Stereo Paper Boy

    I mean is allowing auto-cast on "spam abilities" an easier/better alternative. It works for Project Haven.
  10. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    autocast would be the simplest solution.
  11. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    I would like to add this for virtually all skills.

    I'm making a personal call that Faith, Inception, and Gunship don't need this. I can be convinced to add to any of these others:

    Rifleman:
    Sprint (8/5)
    Focus Fire (5/7)
    Bloodlust (10/10)

    Assault:
    Concentrated fire (5/7)
    Blood Frenzy (20/10)
    Harvester of Sorrow (30/30)
    Taunt (8/7) - should taunt be modified to duplicate IYF?

    Demolitions:
    I'm Your Father (8/8)
    Time to Die (15/10)

    Forward Observer:
    Veteran's Focus (8/10)

    Psi-Ops:
    Mental Projection (12/15)

    Engineer:
    Turbo (8/5) (includes Devastator and Recon Drone)
    Targeting Computer (10/10) (includes Devastator)
    Overdrive (45/20)
    Boom! Headshot (20/12)

    Recon:
    Refresher (45/0)

    Technician:
    Exhaust (forget/0)
    Weapons Array (10/10)
    Iron Hand (12/10)
    Crawler Drone (forget/0)

    Marksman:
    Quick Aim (5/3)
    Stealth (11/12)
    Shadowstep (7/3)

    Commando:
    Adrenaline (30/25)
    Surgical Strike (30/30)
    Borrowed Time (12/0)
    Heightened Senses (5/10)

    I see 2 issues adding autocast to most spells. 1) it removes the artificial difficulty of using the skill efficiently. 2) you shouldn't be spamming these skills for some reason.

    What do you guys think? Only IYF and Stealth? Definitely not on commando? Remember that there needs to be a good reason NOT to add autocast on the skills, like in the case of gunship, faith, and inception. Obviously TTD needs to be used when you're in trouble or need immunities, but there are times when you can just spam it and not worry about it.
  12. stanK

    stanK Member

    I'm for autocast only on demo/assa taunts and smm cloak, it would address the issue of unfair lag influence on games.
    Other skills can stay as is for now.
  13. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    Same: assman, demo, smm. Other classes have some skill-factor / decision making involved.
  14. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    Well let's take a quick peek once more. This thread is titled:
    Spam classes quality of life change suggestion
    So Harvester of Sorrow and Bloodlust fall into these categories, do they not? Especially with Bloodlust, since it's infinitely spammable. Granted, the job of the rifleman is just hold W and press T every so often. Harvester obviously slows you down too much to be used while running, and lowers DPS substantially if low on energy due to lack of concentrated fire.

    I'd also like to note that stealth is 12 second duration, 11 second cooldown. To play devil's advocate here, how is this different from concentrated fire, other than the obvious lag issues Stank pointed out? Even with the lag issues, you have a full second of cloak before it runs out, so lag shouldn't be an issue, and you can survive quite a few hits before dying in case lag is an issue.

    The more important part to me is to get people to stop spamming to improve their quality of life. I've never been a fan of the cooldown-less-than-duration thing either, as it adds artificial difficulty to the game. If you like the early game of starcraft (worker split) better than the early game of Legacy of the Void (12 workers that instantly switch occupied minerals), then I don't think I can convince you on this point.

    Additionally, something like adding autocast to turbo will help engineer keep things like field nexus (which are already slower than everyone else) with the team, without making him constantly select it to tell it to sprint just because "Turbo" and "sprint" are different skills.
  15. stanK

    stanK Member

    There is no point to make skills like HOS or bloodlust auto-cast because it doesn't address any immediate issue. It may be harmful to make HOS auto-cast cos unlike bloodlust it drains energy considerably.

    For stealth -- I was hugged or killed multiple times while HOLDING the button down. That 1 second might seem enough, but it definitely doesn't solve the problem.

    For engy bot... just remove that stupid sprint button and make it slightly faster. Why do we constantly have to come up with ever more complicated solutions, just due to the fact that someone on original dev team didn't play enough to see how pointlessly slow it is?
  16. JohnyM

    JohnyM Member

    I would use autocast only on demo, assman, smm. Using it on other classes would cause severe disadvantages, why it is so hard to understand? Unless you want to rebalance those skills with timing factor.
  17. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    I need the severe disadvantages. They are not obvious to me. Bloodlust and HOS alone do not drain energy on a Max int character, and with restore and supply station it can ban be lessened.

    HOS alone gains 5 energy every cast without intelligence. Bloodlust loses a bit.

    Also, making skills autocast to turbo is easier than improving speed and removing a skill. It's one change rather than 8.
  18. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    Since JMM has okayed autocast for all skills, looks like Stank's the only one who doesn't want this. IMO if you don't want it, don't use it.

    The method to add an autocast requires a new validator in the Autocast Validator array, so I'm going to limit this to the actual spam skills. I can set up smm's cloak to not autocast if he's currently cloaked by shadowstep/escape as well, so I will do that. I don't have a good way immediately for heightened senses, since nothing runs on the commando. I might be able to detect when an enemy uses/loses the debuff though. I also don't have a good way to make level 1 and level 2 weapons array be smart, so for now they stack and will autocast unless both are active.

    Here's the list of autocast skills:
  19. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    heightened senses is not always best used as autocast

    on swarms you can use heightened senses every 5 seconds because there are always new enemies incoming that are not marked

    but on a single target use heightened senses every 15 seconds because there is only one target that has to be marked

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