So yea shields and hits

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by vexxenon, Apr 6, 2013.

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  1. vexxenon

    vexxenon Well-Known Member

    First question I would like to know is, the 0.5 hits count per shield hit... was that discussed anywhere before it was directly implemented into the game?

    Also I would like to know the people that was involved in the discussion process.

    Third.. I would like to hear everyone else opinion on this matter, as I personally think it's totally retarded.

    As a side note, lets talk about rofl's SS medal, this promotes hiding tactic for the rofl trying to get SS, and even if he does get his ult, I'm sure he sure as hell wouldn't run into a group of mobs (assuming only does enough shield dmg) and hit repluse, since that count as hits now. So surv rofl is pretty much useless who hides behind teammate and maybe traps is the only thing that's useful.
  2. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    RE: So yea shield.

    I would like to remind people (although I am also against the change) that shields are still ailment-free hits (very good against ghouls/agrons if you have high shields), and they regen incredibly faster than normal hp (for most classes).

    Despite that, this still makes a ridiculous rating drain, and makes silver start that much more impossible to achieve.
  3. ChuckWing

    ChuckWing Member

    RE: So yea shield.

    Shield hits counting as .5 hits is beyond stupid! If u want to make rating harder to get, why not make ACTUAL hits hurt ur ratings more? And if you want a 1:1 ratio, what is the point of even having a shield? Makes absolutely no sense.
  4. Magistrate

    Magistrate Well-Known Member

    RE: So yea shield.

    Why not just take out shield if you are putting a hit counter on it because it doesn't make any sense to have it. Would rather have no shield, but now the only purpose of the shield is makes u live longer and some resistance to ailments.
  5. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Summarized points and counterpoints as interpreted by Arturia

    Note: I underlined things that are likely to be influence by my bias. There is likely to be some error in interpretation by me, and this is probably lacking a few points / counterpoints that were raised.

    It's probably better to wait until tomorrow, but the summarized points, at least from how I interpreted the discussion, the justifications for it were:

    - NOTD: StarCraft II is the only Night of the Dead map that has "hit leeway", as shields allow ratings to remain high by not counting towards Hits taken

    - Shields are still valuable as they are ailment-free

    - Rating Losses needs to be adjusted; Rating Gains are fine as they are

    - Tying EXP Gain to Rating to a certain extent (Every 100 rating above 1500 = +1 EXP @ Victory)

    - Serves as warning to players that they are, indeed, taking damage, though it may not directly hit their life

    - Playing Shields-Heavy Classes then playing Classes that aren't Shields-Heavy can mess with players as they become overconfident, and end up getting into close-calls (Counterpoint: Player Skill & Personal Ability)

    - It is called "Hits" specifically, not "Life Damage" (Counterpoint: Technicalities and Diction)

    - Dying has a greater impact on a player's rating than hits
    (Counterpoint: Public Games with insane rating losses.
    Counter-Counterpoint: Public Games are generally less risky, and usually have more leeway, leading to players allowing themselves to be hit, in addition to public games not being taken in the same light as Nightmare games)

    Justifications against it:

    - Restricts player freedom (Counterpoint: Raises players' awareness and partially reduces overconfidence; you can still do what you want, but that doesn't mean it will work out)

    - Demolitions Tank will face lower ratings (Counterpoint: As a tank, Demolitions already has 8x reduced rating loss, and will still take less hits compared to a life-based Tank)

    - Silver Star becomes a more difficult medal to attain.
    (Counterpoint: Play Survival; "Selfish" Medals should be more difficult to acquire than team-based medals)

    Kithrixx will likely come along to clear up anything that I may have gotten wrong, and probably put forth justifications for or against certain points that were raised in the original topic, as well as address points that are came up for or against it in this thread.

    @Vexxenon, Do you mind changing the title to Shields & Hits so that the subject is better expressed in the Title? It'll probably convey what the thread is about more effectively than the current title.
  6. Deadalus
    • Donator

    Deadalus New Member

    RE: So yea shield.

    In regards to Vexxenon's post I noticed that it is possible to take 0 hits from an attacker right to your shields but still have damage count added? The worst part is that it has a high negative effect on your rating.

    I think this will make things much more difficult for current players to gain xp and it will further scare away new players who already have a hard time adjusting to EC as their first time exposure.

    Does anyone else feel the same way?

  7. Kenno

    Kenno Well-Known Member

    RE: So yea shield.

    I look at it in this way.

    How many enemy units, bosses excluded, in NOTD are there that actually have ranged attacks? That is right, very few. Only mutas and infested marines.

    So my argument would be that if you are getting hits then you are either a tanking class actively tanking, or you are putting yourself into bad situational positions.

    Your hero can move, do this. Move and shoot, rinse and repeat.

    Unless you are carrying a stupidly high number of mags and your move speed has been raped, then you should be able to maintain a safe distance between yourself and your targets.

    I personally believe that this is yet another indication that NOTD has become too easy over the years and players have become somewhat reckless as a result.
  8. vexxenon

    vexxenon Well-Known Member

    RE: So yea shield.

    More like muta/garg overwhelm, surprise goul spawn, secondary charge enemies. If you're stationary, you better get every single worm spawn, because if u happen to miss any, that's easily 10+ hits right then and there from parasites. Birds doesn't spawn often, but in surv, you better have a sting and lots of flares, cuz they have some nice range. Just to list some.

    Did I mention you better kill those argons far away? otherwise those parasites spawns will give u surprised hits, since they are lower priority atk, I'm sure you are all pro enough to manually click on every one of them.

    No offense, but you made the argument sounds like that players in NM games shouldn't take any ground hits, I don't even know where to begin to justify that. It's just not possible, and if I'm wrong, please show me replay of higher level players achieving that, I'll gladly bow down and shut my face.

    Oh, in general, all my games are 2400+, lol I guess that wont last too long.
  9. ChuckWing

    ChuckWing Member

    Kenno you must not play high sq nm games where I guess u can say ghouls run pretty fast and take 2 pistol shots to kill. Go ahead and drop all ur ammo, armor, mods, and equip pistol with cma so u can run from secondary spawn ghouls lol. Really man? Look, I can see if you guys want to make rating harder to get/maintain, but this is just dumb. There are plenty of other good ways to make that happen and this is not it. Go log onto the channel and ask ppl what they think of this, and you will get nothing but ppl complaining about it. When we play we want the highest sq possible cuz it's more of a challenge. This stupid shield thing doesn't make this game harder, that's why it's so dumb. All this does is screw ppls ratings over so it will make it easier for other ppl. No good players want to play 2000 sq games all day, and that's what this is going to do.
  10. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    I think a problem that needed to be fixed before making shield hits count (and create rating loss) was that hits needed to reduce much less rating than they currently do. In many instances, you'd be better off just dieing than sticking around, waiting for your rating loss to re-compile. For most classes, that magical number of hits is in the 30's. At that point, your rating just slowly tanks until you were better off dead.

    As far as dodging ground units, ghouls are the biggest pain in the ass ever, and half the time knife won't even work on them when they're behind you, so you can't even slow them. A direct quote from the wiki:

    In nightmare, almost everything has charge, including flying gargoyles, which are already just about as fast as the average player, or there is creep covering the entire area you happen to be standing on, which gives paras a ms easily double your sprint. So your ideas about "lol just don't get hit" are actually terribly out of place if you play games with any level of difficulty. Maybe if knife was a guaranteed hit and had a greater range then I'd agree with you, but as it is, just no.

    What if instead of making rating loss/ss based on hits, make it based on damage taken? This would reflect a lot more on ghouls being the annoying grunts that they are, and actual idiots face-tanking agrons, slashers, or titans.
  11. Shooz
    • Donator

    Shooz NOTD Staff: Killjoy

    I will remind you all that you are NOT developers of NOTD. If you were this would have been your decision.

    When things are discussed. They're discussed by black ops level and higher members of the community. Why? The reason is because those are the individuals that put forth a lot of effort to see NOTD become better and harder and more rewarding for those who seek to conquer it.

    Also, do not create a topic to discuss two different topics. Make more than one thread for each topic you'd like to address and stay on topic. (or else)

    NOTD has always taken into consideration the views and wants of it's player base but remember, you do not own NOTD, so don't demand that you get your way or that we change something because it impacts how you've always played before. If you have a problem with how NOTD is evolving and what it's moving toward well... I submit to you two options. Option one being, support NOTD more and involve yourself enough to become black ops to help make the game changing decisions they do. Option two, rage quit.

    Topic Locked. If you'd like to speak more on this. Create a topic and discuss it rather than cry about the changes.
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