small teams-revisited

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by spartanhija, Sep 26, 2012.

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  1. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Hey guys, I know this subject has been debated (several times), but I just wanted to see what anyone else thinks with a few different views thrown into the equation. Over the last few months I've been starting to really see and understand the different types of dps, and the different types of styles of play. I've played pub-Surv games, recruit-nm, pretty much like everyone else has and there are actually 2 subjects I would like for some of us to think about, both may or may not effect you at all, but they do affect many players. Please enter this thread with an open mind because many of us are "vets" or players with some degree of gameplay experience.

    1. Recruit mode: It's pretty tough a lot of the time. I've noticed that the game type that's supposed to be for new players, which is a great thing, is often changed by "vet" players, or players with a large amount of xp (and of course rating). While I don't consider this a bad thing, even though it ups the difficulty, the more experienced players should help and guide the new recruits in surviving. Well, we all know it doesn't happen this way, and far too often I see new recruits slaughtered while the vets keep moving on. Of course, this great game IS in fact supposed to be challenging, I'd like to propose a couple things and get some feedback.

    - First of which, I'd like to propose no matter what level of xp, or rating, a recruit mode game (game which at least 1 player has less than 500xp) is a universal difficulty no matter what.
    -Second, that difficulty is slighty lowered (not for the vets, for the recruits). The reason for this is to give recruits especially first time players a better chance to experience notd in all its glory, also to retain more players, if someone dies in the first 5 minutes of a game due to overwhelming odds , and its happened 2 or 3 times what are the chances they are going to stay and become better players? If people want a super hard game mode, organize a vet or nm game, but creating a difficult environment for beginners may need a critical rethink, if birds going to gain and retain new players.

    Solution: its kinda hard to say without feedback, and input from others who really play pubs and see what happens to those poor guys and gals. I see plenty of vets in games and not till about a week ago did I see any really guide them. I wish i remembered the guys name but he had a little over 60k xp and he literally kept the entire team alive, 3 of which were brand new players. That was probably the only pub I had seen someone guide from begining to end in a pub, plenty of times in vet games, but not too much otherwise.

    Sub-topic: if a player has less than 500xp and is killed before the dropship, would creating a mini-marine at dropship site be a good idea?
    Pro1: when the new guy asks "do I respawn" you can say yes but not for 10 or 15 min if you wanna wait, as opposed to "not for an hour or so" or "not till you earn 500xp, just 499 to go"
    Pro2: it would give more incentive for players to appropriately drop flares during the correct time, especially now with the ammo glitch vets in pubs may not be showing recruits the importance of the dropship.
    Pro3: obviously the recruit won't feel left out and have negative feelings for being new.
    Con1: ? I suppose if someone forgets a flare the recruit could get overwhelmed by any crowds still wandering, thus contradicting the purpose of the mini drop.
    Con2: dps without ammo, making the game easier (although no abilities should balance out , at least some)

    On another note for games begining with small teams(~6 or less):
    Is like to revisit the idea of an AI mini starting with ec company (similar to alpha) If the team is "small". Especially for two reasons;
    1. They will not normally live past ere1, so there most usefullness will be during crowds early on, but helps to ensure players get sufficient levels and to be self sufficient.
    2. More often than not people who start the game early (without full house) are people who aren't as experienced and could really use the extra help of a mini, especially if its first order was to defeat ghoul wave then proceed to epsilon for download as opposed to just escort teamates with flee/return behavior (normal AI micro).
    3. Even though the game scales for smaller teams, it also means the teams dps is significantly lowered, losing a combat rifleman or either of the marksmen, arms assault, demo, really losing any unit except medic or recon means major drop in dps, and I sincerely doubt a mini can be equated to a thinking player with 9 combat abilities.
    Con: takes a little extra work to fit into map with other matters already existing
    Con2: If recruit mode is made easier due to suggestion 1 ^^^ then in fact this may add a slight edge to the friendly forces, yet recruit mode is for recruits so personally I don't have a problem with it, and it still doesn't equate to a crofl,assarms,or others.
    Con3: oh those damn soloists..

    So thanks for your time, I'm open to any suggestions or complaints, and I really would like to keep this civil.
    Comments plz
    Gramar Nazi * paragraph 3, last sentance, birds is supposed to be notd, I think. Dam auto spell.
  2. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    the simple fact that recruit and nightmare difficulties change with squad rating is silly to me.
  3. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Haven't seen nightmare change much, but that's probly because most of my nightmare is solo. I definitley agree with the recruit part of what you said, as you can tell by my 20 paragraph post :p
    Thanks for at least a little feedback rockz
  4. MissHumpz
    • Event Coordinator
    • Community Leader

    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

    Face it, NOTD is not aimed at new players as there is very little introduction and no tutorial. Its not possible to learn everything there is to know simply by playing the game, unless someone is there to tell you what to do or even where to go. And not all newbies respond well from being bossed around.
  5. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Recruit should have a fixed difficulty, in my opinion. Nightmare? Definitely should be affected by squad rating.
  6. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member


    any opinion on the mini if any different than before? considering all options?
    (Im thanking people because, regardless of other info, seem to have valid points)
    Nightmare shouldn't be the hardest possible difficulty? I mean its the hardest game mode, but difficulty changes? Whats your thinking kith?
  7. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    I guess I want a 4th mode of vnm. Still though, a lot of the nm games I play are not that difficult. Is it because I only have an 1800 rating? I mean I don't pay special attention to my rating like some people do, which lets them get 2500.

    a sr 2500 vet game is likely just as hard, if not harder than an sr 1700 nm game. I remember when sr 1800 recruit was ridiculously difficult and actually harder than normal.
  8. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    Well the style in which we play now is much more defensive, rather than out in the open which is what we used to do. The NA Manly-man style. Now we do it the pussy way for sake of convenience and because it makes more sense time vs rewards wise unless they do something about the current topic of increased xp/creds for completing all objectives. That'd be dope and bring a new aspect to the game.

    Not only that, but yes.. sr does affect the difficulty, im not sure exactly by how much. Rockz brings up a good point though and maybe the matter should be explained or even updated, if already not, so the level of difficulty does adjust to our new 2500 cap to be even harder than the 2000 cap. or something like that.

    It could also feel easy if u are playing in a room full of vets who know what they're doing. I felt the same way about Survival NM, then i hosted one myself with 5 channel players that I usually don't play with and we died horribly and I had no idea why since we had the same class set ups.
    Well its quite self-explanatory, ppl just weren't timing their skills right when they needed to, resulting in the team getting overrun, swarmed, raped, yatta yatta. Strength in the unity of numbers.
  9. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Thanks for the explanation! Just asking but in your first paragraph, what would be dope if "That'd be dope and bring a new aspect to the game"? Also, did you mean recruit mode should or should not have varying difficulties?
    I've noticed if you have menos, you get significantly more mutas (1650 sq) during ec muta holdout, if you have over 1700 sq, you get a shitton of mutas. While this is not a problem for me, it just seems a bit much to be throwing at a persons 1-5 game, just in that one part. But that isn't the only spot where things get gritty for a first timer.
    Could you be a little more specific on what you think should be implemented, if anything?
  10. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    The sooner NOTD tutorial comes out, the better for newer players
  11. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    I doubt development for that has even started, if so its in its infancy. NOTD V2 is "supposed" to be released in a few months, either way as mentioned at 1800 rating recruit mode is around the same difficulty as vet/normal, only you dont get power weapons. Basically, with a few exceptions, 1650-1700 recruit rating is about the same difficulty as non recruit (nydus/slashers,vet infesters, mini map, power weapons and armor).

    Especially pubs, games can end up getting crazy, random shit happens, in alpha or apollo, even vet or nm ec games, people will Remake instead of working through a loss or two, whereas in a pub game unless nearly entire team is slaughtered (intensifying difficulty case), players tough through the bodies of fallen comrades, but if keeping the players alive a little farther down the line, isn't that huge of a deal, its not like its very rewarding in the first place(+2 creds to kill tart and ere1 if no vets soaking up creds), keeping them alive can help them learn more about the game, develop a play style, and learn more about the game.
    I kind of got side tracked during last post, im on 20 something hours of no sleep, i can rewrite if need be.
  12. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    They will remake because:
    1. It is very early in the game (Start - 20 minutes)
    2. They are aiming for MOH
  13. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    Theres an extremely low chance that a notd tutorial is actually made. Its been talked about forever and its just not very practical. First off Hots will be out soonish rendering this version old, plus nobody actually does tutorials anyways. Everybody skips over them going with the whole i'll learn as i go route. Perhaps not the most beneficial but definetly more fun and its not a terrible route to go.

    Also to add actual content into the discussion. The problem recruit mode is this. It can get extremely hard for those who are new to complete due to the others in the room, yes true however also if you set a fixed difficulty 1.this game loses its luster of always being different everytime you play. 2. Becomes stupidly easy and also boring to those of us who have played it for a long time. Its extremely tough trying to make 8 differnt people of various notd expiernce happy. However in my opinion it should be left exactly how it is. It seems to me having an extremely difficult game is still the best solution. it will be tough on new folks yes and many will die. However it will also please those of us who have been around and give some of the new folks who do survive a taste of that notd victory rush and a sense of accomplishment which doesnt happen that often in pubs. My vote will at least always be to keep it as is. When making a fun challenging game we should never slack off just because a few first timers cant handle it.
  14. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Lol, if you want it hard do nm. If you call that hard.
    Also, if pleasing the vets mean retaining less players, uh play vet dude.
  15. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    thats not the point.. the point is if its boring for vets whos gonna play this game? This game made to always be challenging and never a cake walk, you take that away and its pointless to ever play pubs.

    all im saying is sacrificing that for the sake of retaining more players cuts at the very core of why alot of us play this in the first place.
  16. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Yeah thats great, but if you want a really hard level, play vet, or nm. It doesn't make any sense at all to have recruit mode, the easiest and least rewarding game to be as intensive as it is. Earning 60 or 70 xp and 15 credits especially for a brand new player is not worth it for them, and we lose them. Having more players means more games, including vet games if your looking for difficulty. Recruit mode doesn't have to be "easy" but lowering the difficulty at least before apollo makes alot of sense. earning between 1-4 credits is not too much for a recruit to have a better chance to live. Also, the longer they stay alive means the faster they will get 500 xp and less recruit games will be available. I don't see what the big deal is, I know I love to pub, and it aint hard for me at all. I love the crazyness during EOS, and Im not saying change that, but the beginning at least for recruit mode can use a bit of change, not for you lulz, but for the communities growth.
    Thank you for your input though
  17. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Hmm.. ok let me kinda rethink what I'm asking. I've got two ideas that may or may not be helpful, but ill try.

    1. Keep things the way they are, except slightly decrease the difficulties, so the.1800 almost vet recruit games won't appear till 2200 sq or so.

    2. Sounds op, but just think about it for a sec. What if, only in recruit mode, a medic and a rifle spawn at ec with team? The pair wouldn't follow the team(escort) as usually done by minis. Instead of escorting, they would head to objectives, with or without team and wait. So first, they would go to epi mines, then starport, airlock, etc. If they are alive after airlock, they would be waiting there until team was finished with mines, Cams, etc. So basically they would move independently of the team, and if kept alive they would guide, and heal newcomers, if not, well they just die I guess. So it wouldnt be like stallens, brooks and Irvin, just adding to overall dps, it'd be, if you keep them alive, and follow objectives, then they add to dps. Keep in mind this would ONLY be in recruit mode, any sq.
  18. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    But what about the mineshaft? It doesn't come up as a aide mission.
  19. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    The pair would go to the main objectives, making them independent, and therefore vulnerable, of team. The main objective is the only one they go to. That's why they would wait at airlock while teams go do Cams, mine shaft, ect..
  20. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    Just make sure they don't trigger missions...
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