Reworking Class Selection Penalty

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by ArcanePariah, May 17, 2013.

  1. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Going past 2 of a class triggers the 40% reduction in credits and XP. Although this was intended to dissuade people from "cheese" strats that involved mass stacking of a class, it is now completely warping class selection.

    Currently if you trigger this penalty, nearly everyone will call for quitting and remaking. Moreover, anyone who wants to random is forced to go first, lest they random something 2 people have already chosen or randomed.

    Thoughts?
  2. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Basicly thats what its supposed to do, punish people for playing cheese strategies (which then turns players into remaking because they dont want it). While there are a lot of reasonable strategies prevented by this rule i think it the best way to counter cheese strategies. Its annoying with randoming but at the same time justified since if you exempt randoms from the rule it would create a backdoor that could be used to circumvent the rule.
  3. Omega Death
    • Donator

    Omega Death Alpha Weltall

    So this is basically a forced exped?
  4. MissHumpz
    • Event Coordinator
    • Community Leader

    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

    This penalty is MOSTLY occurring, not during cheese games, but when people don't call classes and/or pick without looking, randoming, etc.

    Perhaps increase the amount of class stacking by 1 or 2? So therefore, the penalty will only trigger when a team goes past 4 of the same class.

    (Just to clarify, this trigger does not get affected by classes that share class points?
    For example, you are allowed to have 1 Assault, 1 Tech and 1 Flamer without the penalty triggering?)
    • I'll drink to that! I'll drink to that! x 1
  5. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Just 1 tech and 1 psi with push is a cheese.
    Just 1 FA engi is cheese.
    Just 1 fort demo is cheese.
    Just 1 arti fo is cheese.
    Anything can be a "cheese" if done right.

    Randoms should go first anyway, people that don't want to random or wanna fill in needed roles to ensure a win go last.
    if 5 random n 3 get same class.. well isn't that the risk of random? :D If you see 2 of the same classes dont random? start picking? If you liked those 2 anyway.
  6. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    You have an awkward definition of cheese scrop. Something being strong/good != cheese.

    The main cheese this was mean to prevent was 3 techs perma sparking everything.
  7. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    1/2 techs can do that. Spark or nets even both.​
    2 assault tanks can do that. Charge​
    1 FO with queue commands can do that.​
    2 MMs can do that. Mono​
    1 demo can semi do that. Look ttd​
    1 Psi can do that. TP + push​
    1 engi tower popping does that.​
    I like that rule because it makes things a tiny bit interesting. Instead of just mass cheesing with boring "strats". Thus however It doesn't "stop" cheesing overall.​
    3 techs weren't even needed. 2 are all you need. Or just 1 good tech.​
  8. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    I tried to make this post last night (was supposed to be the first one), but laggy forums, whatever...

    As I've said multiple times: Those who want to farm are going to find a way to do it. Worst comes to worst, we get some very funny results with mass mando/fo/ w/e. Most of the guys I play with end up going mass random anyway (the EU guys), so this would definitely be nice to limit the amount of countless remakes.

    Besides, even if you do cheese the game to make it easy, the rewards for the time are just insane. Sure, you can cheese the hell out of a story line, but does that make it even remotely fun? If somebody finds that fun, so be it. You're spending at least an hour on a story line to get a reward that doesn't even make a huge impact on the game itself. Yes, it is an impact, but clearly it's not game changing/breaking. And even if they do get these rewards (mods and stat points), what does it matter? It's not like they're allowed to use them in tourney's. It's personal game, not a general ranking system.

    While I am hesitant on a complete removal of this feature, because I do agree with why it was originally implemented, I feel like it just causes more problems than it solves. Perhaps we only put a penalty for certain classes, like tech or... well... I don't really know many other classes that are actually really that OP when massed >.> lol, but you get the point.
  9. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    Penalty is aplied for anything you have 3 or more of above medic slot. [meaning unlimited riffle/med, max 2 other stuff]
    If you really wan't to cut on the bahaviour of remaking after penalty trigs and keep the limits on solution is simple.
    Show Spoiler

    Game is aware of what classes are picked that's a given.
    Make addition to the formula of picking a class:
    if(classCounter(classPicked)>2){
    force repick
    }
    for a random it would just exclude a class from random pool, for actual picking grey it out via trigger like it is done with insufficient xp/rating

    But personally, don't do it. It is only risk of random ever [getting class you dont like is not risk].

    If you don't want to take that risk don't random or get used to game trolling you sometimes.
    That said i do remake all the time if we end up with 3 of X, don't think i ever went thru with it even when we got 3x assu in secnm.
  10. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    I feel like that's a really round-about "risk" for randoming... especially due to the fact that most people who random don't care what they get and just want to mix it up a little. Yes, there's the awesome chance that you might get something outside your story line, but personally, I wouldn't even care if it was random inside your story line, without the extra mags, or whatever else could possibly be a bonus. And I mean like, having the only risk for randoming being the class stack, something nobody even looks for, but rather just happens, you're punishing them for intentions they do not have...
  11. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    People definitely look for the class stack. That's the whole point of having randoms go first, and getting really pissed at anyone that randoms after you already have 2 of a class.

    I'm gonna stay out of this discussion, but only because if I had my way, random would be completely removed from the game.
  12. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Random is unlocked too easily tbh.
    Talking about the outside storyline.
    Also I only random because at times I dont know what to play :3
  13. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Either make Randoms not count (the intended function when this was pitched) or make Randoms unable to choose classes that there are already 2 of.
  14. Shooz
    • Donator

    Shooz NOTD Staff: Killjoy

    This.
  15. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Removing Randoms from this rule is creating a loophole that could be abused.
    Making people unable to random a 3rd would be a nice addition though.
  16. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    I definitely would prefer making randoms unable to choose classes that there are already 2 of.
  17. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Agree, randoms can't choose a 3rd of the same class is good.

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