Removing Nydus Worm spawns in Boss Fights

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Ability, Feb 25, 2012.

  1. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    We propose removing Nydus Worm spawns in most boss fights as many people feel it may be more luck based vs skill. At minimum, we should remove it from Non-NM.

    Any thoughts?
  2. Peerawatz
    • Development Team

    Peerawatz NOTD Staff: Sound Mixer and NOTD Troll Chieftain

    Tbh I never like it, it doesn't really promote anything, apart from to keep your eyes focused on your screen every milseconds, and this is not Jet Fighter Simulation so it's what did we used to call, gruvious?....

    TROLL Mechanic

    Is not Skil, Is not Luck, Is not Chance, Is Troll Troll and Troll

    [video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE0o06py_sg[/video]

    A very going-well NM games can end in disaster from just one single stupid troll worm appearing on DPSser, and some people just have to blame that person for not "paying attention", but I for one believe NOTD would be better off without it.
  3. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    As I stated earlier, I did recently have a game where four nyduses... nydusii? Nydii? Anyway, four of them appeared during a Seth Fight, all between the first and second Plasma Detonator. It is a bit out of hand.

    All together. I just don't like them. There's a balance point to achieve with a mechanic like that. Right now I can tell you that a vast majority of Nydus Worms feel either A) Pointless and easily dealt with. Example being say, when you're moving between Cameras, nothing is really going on and one pops up. or B) Likely to be a one finger salute to a particular player's hopes for the game. See for example what happens when a nydus worm pops up right when the players are fighting Deimos, or the first attack on the Armory in Alpha Company.

    That said... I like the Nydus Worms in Survival, when I play it. Admittedly I don't hit Survival as hard as some people, but I do play it a bit. So much of it is a kitefest anyway that the worm pop ups just make the kiting that tiny bit more difficult. But it hardly ever is a team killing event.

    I dunno. A subject like this, some people are going to complain and say you're making things too easy. Some are going to say it's the right move, no matter what changes you make. I honestly can't imagine if you remove Nydus Worms from boss fights anyone is going to go, "Damn I miss having 15 parasites appear right next to me while I'm trying to tank Eos!" or something.
  4. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Just have it disabled in cases where your energy cannot exist (After Nazara & Seth EMP) A minute or two after that emp, sure, let it occur, but immediately after is just not fair.

    Just, make a few minute delay in between them during bosses, there isn't a reason for 4 nydus worms to occur in under 1 minute.

    In Survival, I don't care how many you make.
  5. Jercy

    Jercy Well-Known Member

    There are some games every now and then where you get more then one nydus worm during a boss fight, but it is more often that you do not see any during a boss fight. I think the current chance of it happening is fine. Considering that parasites no longer charge in NM makes the nydus much less dangerous. Time and time again I have seen good teams deal with nydus worms during boss fights and we have all won. It just requires people to be team players and have the correct abilities in order to help out their teammates in this situtation.
  6. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

  7. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    In next patch, Nydus Worms won't spawn during boss fights in Non-NM games. It follows the principle of keeping it less random and more skill based.

    For vets like Jercy in NM games, it's probably less 'random' and more 'operational risk' since most of the team are already aware of the possibility and should be on guard. The level of knowledge between people who play general games and those who organize for NM should be a key driver. Another way of going about it to make it more skill based could be to have a Marine in the area giving a simple message a few seconds before hand like 'Did you feel that?'. This preps alert teams to stay on guard. What do you think?

    I've read Niteshade's link on fake difficulty. I'll talk to Earendil about this as well. It's a good read.
  8. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Moving thread to NOTD Discussion.
  9. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Decent ideas.

    Third idea, and a bit more of an esoteric one: Make it so the Recon's Motion Sensor detects it a bit before it appears. Just a nice Red (!), with nothing in sight should alert good SurvCon players. So the same "Did you feel that" cue would also pop up the red (!).

    .... probably a small bit influenced by my love of SurvCon, if I'm being honest. But it has that intrinsic In Game World logic that I think the average Joe like me could grasp. Though it's something that might take a player a bit to put together and newer players won't immediately recognize what it means.
  10. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    I don't know where to contribute/comment to the relatively new "delay" in the larvae production/spawn from the worms so I think I'll just put this here. Please move (or remove) as you see fit.

    The change has helped me survive more these days

    I said "These days" because in the olden times, I had no problems with the insta spawn charge larvae.

    With my newly acquired connection problems however

    (where I usually have a .5 - 1 sec delay in command inputs being recognized by the game on a good day, and completely lagging out a game, ruining it for everyone on bad ones)

    while my mouse click and shortcut pressing speed has not changed, my toon's reaction is at times now geriatric sluggish.

    (or maybe I just really need a new rig, heh. someone buy me a new one? XD)


    Why is this relevant when it should just be an issue I alone have to deal with?

    Well, it's not. I've asked around and quite a few of the players we have actually get less than optimum gameplay experience due to either bnet, their own connections and/or their rigs.
    Most, of the players play on the lowest graphic settings and do not experience the whole of the game (like not seeing corpses where ghouls can pop up from) and still experience lags/delays.

    In a game where reflex micro is very important, insta spawn/insta gimp mechanics is a very tough and frustrating thing to deal with if you experience this command gap
    so yeah, I welcome this change

    though I think Niteshade's and Peerawatz's requests of lowering particle levels on the map would solve the issue, no longer needing to put the delays on the trigger. Saying this since I was asked to test a different NOTD map with them and I didn't get the performance problems I'm getting from the new patches.

    On other news, it seems to me like a majority of the high performance vets have high performance computers. Could we have potentially high class players that are being held back by their rigs? Should the rages against the "newbies" and "noobs" at least be tempered by taking into considering that factor? :p
  11. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Personally, my computer runs rather uhh... Crap-tier here.

    Its not a computer to be proud of, I've had to take it apart many times just to attempt to fix the defunct fan, and I hardly can run graphics on Low. Its one of the reasons why Apollo B is off-limits, as well as Alpha as a whole for me. Nightmare intensifies my issues, and I actually lag (and cause others to lag) from this.
  12. Annihilate

    Annihilate New Member

    I'm not much of a creative thinker but why not substitute the Nydus Worms with another Menoetes like mini-boss that has a chance to spawn during a different chapter.

    That way it adds another element of luck to the game and if it does spawn, the players can act accordingly to it's effects. It could also be nightmare exclusive to add that extra difficulty/planning element.

    Maybe like a beefed-up corrupter that swoops into the team every once and a while and it's only attack is a volatile blast vs a player, making the team have to spread out until it goes off while he then flies off only to return 30 seconds to a minute later. Would encourage anywhere to using road flares to help spot, to using a recon for LD and flaring for vision.

    Maybe an Overseer that gives minions either a damage or hp or speed aura. Or he could just pick up nearby mobs and attempt to approach and drop them on the team. Or can be a corruption effect where the affected marine gets % more damage against them.

    Maybe have spore crawlers spawn saying that they are releasing toxic/acidic or regenerative/mutative gases into the air which causing either a debuff for the marines or a buff for the zombies or a weird mixture of buff/debuff for marines (kinda like madness).

    Maybe instead of nyduses, it's burrowed stalkers that move underground, making excellent use of the motion sensor for recon for early detection. Not to mention encourage use of thermals during all aspects of the game / gives another reason to put more points into perception.

    At least something to substitute the nyduses because I do feel that nyduses added that element of fear, that insecurity and when it comes you get that rush of quick and necessary decision making that cannot be typed, only reacted that makes the game fun. If nyduses are kept in game, I would have them spawn during bosses because that is when your attention is most sharp and focused and with the delay, should be able to react to a degree but at a limit of 0-1 per boss or even per game. Not during the wander/exploration or the defend vs hordes stages of the game where they are easily managed.
  13. ProbeGst

    ProbeGst Well-Known Member

    corrupter idea is good.
    Overseer Not because it's kinda hard already.(imagine NM)
    spore cralers release mutative gas wich increase 2 armor or regen.
    Burrowed Stalkers are good use of perception. because it's mostly used against black ops.
  14. RiDdElOrE

    RiDdElOrE New Member

    Hey guys,
    cmon first you made the larva not spawn instantly ,then you removed sprint too...
    now you want to remove em completely from boss fights? cmon this blows dont make it too easy for us to get our moh man . im no sadist and i sure died as well a couple of times on larvas but if you stayed sharp and switched target fast enough(and pulled out your knife) the nydus werent a problem and if 2 or 3 bit you you still had a med around .
    i think the latest changes on them just made the game experience less intense ...
    and i dont like unchallanging games or easy wins...at least on nm i can allways go pub for an easy win xD
  15. poor_newb

    poor_newb Member

    the problem with nydus worms was not about it poping up during boss fights, but was about it poping up right after an emp where the team had no energy to deal with it, they are helpless because sprint takes energy

    either make nydus not pop up after an emp or make emp leave 20 energy so people can at least sprint
  16. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    And that reported incident where 4 spawned during Seth. Imagine that happening on NM. heh
  17. poor_newb

    poor_newb Member

    well in that case it's more of a problem with random spawning in general, given enough bad luck, a random spawn of too much of anything at once will overwhelm the team in any situation

    it shouldn't mean that random spawns should be removed from boss fights all together, but it should be reworked so that bad luck spawns like 4 nydus at once can no longer happen, boss fight or not
  18. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    It kind of depends on the Boss Fight.

    See for example (And I'm sure a lot of people, not just me, have experienced this before): Queen Shrieks. Nydus pops up under marines. 3 guys are killed completely defenseless.

    Seth/IVAX: Tank has Nydus pop up next to him. Due to Concussive Shell effect, can't escape Parasites (And doing so would fuck the team). Likely to get Venomed out, particularly during Seth if the Polarity shifts don't allow the Doc to get close.

    Deimos/Athena: Just the way these fights are, if a trollspawn happens during them it's likely to be a death sentence for someone. You're usually trapped in a small location with nowhere to go to evade the Parasites. And pulling attention from the Boss to deal with them can lead to bad times real fast. See again the "Shock" effect on Deimos making any sort of evasion even a bigger non-starter than being in the cramped location already is.

    Demeter: Admittedly a lower percentage chance (But can easily happen if Demeter has a troll spawn practically on top of the player's designated hold out position, which does happen sometimes), Stare, Nydus Worm, GG.
  19. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    You know this Arc, but maybe you just forgot a bit. :)
    Shriek = med shields self and tank asap so that situations like that are avoidable (even if marginally). :p

    The rest of the time, well yeah. Clumped up against Deimos or even just during that wave, a larvae spawning mini nydus popping directly under a team can be bad news.

    Only option is if everyone spams knife (which people forget a lot):p
  20. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Yeah, I know the shield. But realistically only 1/2 people are going to be shielded. And often that's not enough to save someone from the Doom. The last thing you want on your tank is 20 Venom Stacks and several worms chewing on him. And the medic is going to lack any way to promptly deal with the worms.

    I don't count "Everyone knife!" as a viable anti-parasite tactic. Only because it can be overtly difficult to fix your facing and make sure you don't turn you back. Or because it's something like "Boss is on one side. Nydus pops up directly on the other side of you. Ignore boss and get owned in order to deal with Parasites? Ignore Parasites to deal with the boss and get venom owned?"

    EDIT: And forgot to mention the other Parasite Troll Boss Situation.

    Nazara. Direct Control Assumed. 7k HP Charging Nightmare Larvae. I have seen it happen. It is bad.

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