Regarding the new rating cap

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Ghost, May 26, 2012.

  1. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Let me just say that this is probably a bad idea if the aim is to allow players to simply play at a new difficulty level with 2000 SR on a controlled/regular basis.

    What raising the cap to 3000 also does is drastically skew the average SR in other games.

    Distance between 1500 (start) and 2000 (old max) was 500. Distance between 1500 and 3000 (new max) is 1500, a 3 fold increase.

    Average SR in a game of 1 3k guy and 7 1500 rating people = 1688

    Consider current SR boundaries of:
    1600
    1650
    1800
    2000

    That 3k rating guy leave due to bad random? Good luck to the 7 remaining newbies to survive a 1650+ SR game past starport or keeping new players interested in NOTD.

    The knock on effect of a 3000 rating cap on SR is huge because of the distance between 1500 and 3000 compared to 2000 when you average it. You can't even just amend the existing boundaries because that means that if noone in the game has 2k+ rating, the game will become a breeze. If it was based on median rather than mean, that would likely work better.

    Certainly outside of bragging rights, there is 0 benefits of having a rating higher than 2k (even 1950) and no real reason to create that extra mess for an arbitrary 1000 points of nothing.

    The alternative, which I think would be preferable is this:
    Bring back the -vnm command but change it that it:
    Automatically sets SR to 2000
    Activates Nightmare mode

    That would achieve exactly what the 3k cap would without all the resulting issues that stem from having 1 or even more 3k rating guys in a pub or other channel game full of newbies.

    If you want to tie rewards to high rating, the better idea is to make use of the current boundaries and redefine them.
    I.e. make 1900+ twice as hard to get because you have random noobs who easily with no skill get to 1800+ and some of them even in the 1900s due to constant bank reloading and other shehanigans including being carried in NM games.
    Giving a reward at 2100,2200,2300 etc rating is the same as giving it at 1910,1920 etc if you make it sufficiently difficult to reach. Its just a number value, but due to the smaller range it will not screw up the balance for everyone else in the game.
  2. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    This was actually a series of things on a "to do" list that I gave to Ability. In addition to the new cap, a new spawn/rating ratio was to be implemented (which can be viewed below) and then the Bonus Stats From Rating concept from the Player Incentives topic. The additional 1,000 points of rating were more or less put there for players that excel to have a much more difficult game and for a buffer of sorts to retain the stat points.

    A simpler solution that does not involve making a new system would be to make the game read no higher than 2,000 rating for a single individual if the game is recruit mode so it doesn't screw up the average squad rating. It also puts a convenient quash on pub heroes that go randoming, so if they happen to have maximum rating they don't TOTALLY destroy the game just by being present in the game that one time.

    Show Spoiler
    If Squad Rating is equal to 1800-1899, increase spawn rate by 25%.
    If Squad Rating is equal to 1900-1949, increase spawn rate by 50%.
    If Squad Rating is equal to 1950-1999, increase spawn rate by 75%.
    If Squad Rating is equal to 2000+, increase spawn rate by 100%.
  3. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    I think often the problem is a vet or two gets stuck in a game with a bunch of new ppl which makes the game too ez for them. Why not give them a debuff depending on there rating/xp? Like 10% ( or 20% w/e) from normal enemies? It shouldnt make it too much more difficult for newbs if only the vet players recieves the debuff.
    [hr]
    10-20% more dmg* or slightly less move speed? Or longer reload time?
    [hr]
    Of course not everygame but only if the sr is much less than the vet players rating
    [hr]
    Lets say the vets rating is 2000 but game sr is 1600 maybe per 100 or 50 rating he is over the limit 2.5-5% extra dmg he takes?
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    And this rolls back around to punishing good players for being good, which I'm going to continue issuing a flat "no" to until Ability tells me to stop. They earned their bonuses, they earned their skills, if they want to pub, let them pub. Yes, it's training wheels easy mode for them, but they barely get anything out of it compared to the harder difficulties (comparing something like ~70 EXP for an EC Recruit win and 320 for a NM Apollo B Speed) so I don't see a problem.
  5. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Not trying to punish them, but if there going to get a bonus and more creds for playing the same difficulty as the newbs that may be something to look into. Most ppl who are actually good dont get hit much anyways unless by chance they random a tank unit they dont mind being a tank with. Just a suggestion not a punishment mr k.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I know that it's just a suggestion, but what you're suggesting is literally a punishment. Yes, they have veterans' bonuses and get more credits and in some cases more exp (depending on how stupidly high their EXP is, I'm looking at you ArtisticPotato), but they're playing the easiest mode. They are choosing to play the easiest mode, so let them play the easiest mode unhindered. They're already hindering their own growth, considering that the more difficult modes have three times the experience reward and many, many, many more times the credit rewards.
  7. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Hm I would much rather than if rating >2000, rating = 2000 for SR calculations regardless of mode because 1 or 2 3k guys simply will drag the SR a lot higher than the others might be able to handle.

    Just because someone has 3k rating doesn't mean they are that much better than everyone else or deal that much extra damage to deal with the increase in enemy strength, especially if they are playing a support role, i.e. FA med.

    So in summary, I think if you want to have 2k SR rating games, just bring in a command that sets it to that level.
    I'd rather not mess with the SR of games in general to accomodate people wanting a higher number rating, when you can just use the 1900 or 1950+ range and condense the difficulty of climbing it to the same effect without unintended consequences for other players.
  8. Emperor

    Emperor New Member

    I thought -nm mode didn't factor squad rating already. Pretty sure I read that somewhere.

    Even if it isn't, it should already be the case.
  9. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    It does factor the squad rating.
  10. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Hmm maybe it looks like punishment, but if the vets want it harder give it to them, its really a way to not punish the newbs if a vets in the game.
  11. Emperor

    Emperor New Member

    Well it shouldn't, really. All -NM games should be the same. At least get rid of silly rating tanking.

    It says on the wiki that -NM overrides squad rating based difficulty.
  12. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Lol for my suggestion it wasnt for ALL games. Its just if if someone with ridiculusly high rating and xp is playing with a bunch of nubs on recruit. Not all game types. But i wouldnt like the idea either, evwn if 5% of a zombies attack is 1.1-1.65 dmg lol.
  13. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    It means it overrides the squad rating choosing the difficulty. For example, vet mode triggers at sr 1800+, hardened at sr 1650+ etc.
  14. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    It does not.

    There are 2 factors for difficulty. Mode and SR.

    SR dictates the overall difficult of spawn rate and zombies HP, that is universal to all modes.

    Certain game mechanics are activated at different SR thresholds (Agron larva are at 1800, Brood mothers are at 1800, Zues/Leto Respawn at 1700, etc).

    NM mode activates ALL of theses optional SR mechanics, as well as its own unique mechanics (Charging for the most part, and a buff to all HP). Recruit does the opposite, it disables certain mechanics (Fog of war, Brood mothers, etc). In a sense, NM and Recruit are "meta" difficulties, taking the SR dictated difficult and modifying it accordingly.
  15. Emperor

    Emperor New Member

    That doesn't really make much sense. If a 1600 SR NM game is different from a 2000 SR NM, it doesn't override anything but text.
  16. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    I probably worded that badly, so read AP's post below mine because that pretty much explains it better.
  17. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Nm is nm i believe, and to activate nm u have to manuelly type it in. So it seems to make sense, basically the higher sr u have the harder it gets. Certain srs unlock more stuff. Not sure what doesnt make sense about that.
    [hr]
    Mening no matter wat sr nm will be nm.
  18. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Why, then? That just makes Rating over 2k pointless dickwaving, like you said before.

    *Shrug* The team should adjust. If you're organizing a game and there's someone with high rating, you had best roll out the DPS and the AOE to deal with the mobs.

    Then what's the point of having rating? Rating is to set the difficulty automatically so the good get challenged and the bad get an easier time. Having things set manually opens up a lot of questions of how it would be regulated. NOTD's pacing is set around the Rating Mechanic, and I'm really not interested in seeing a bypass implemented.

    I would. There are teams that blow through 2k SR NM Apollo B like clockwork. Increasing the capacity for them to have a challenge is not a bad thing. Regulate the difficulty increase in the presence of newbies and there's not a problem. Rating isn't supposed to be something that you just max out, it's supposed to be fluid, and making the game much more difficult for higher rating will actually achieve that. Few will be able to max out their rating, while everyone else is going to be gaining some, losing some, and generally having it hover around what their actual skill level is.

    If all goes as planned, at least.
  19. Emperor

    Emperor New Member

    Yeah you're awful at 'splainin. I kid. (Do I?)

    I still think all -NM games should be the same, utmost highest difficulty anyway.

    Adding -vnm would be too Spinal Tap for me. NM is already the mode you get all the good shit in anyway, not like anyone can argue there should be an easier version of it. Would remove rating tanking like I mentioned before. Unless people start tanking for vet games, lol.
  20. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Gotta love mr k

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