Recon spe surv is not a real scout.

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Kusanosky, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. Kusanosky

    Kusanosky New Member

    Hi all.

    I find the recon spe surv is not a real scout.

    Every time you play a recon, people in your team want you up LD for armor debuff or SS lvl 2 for mag and energy regen.
    Is it normal? I don t think.
    Tell me in what it s a scout job. :huh:

    For me flare is essential for recon so I think spe surv need to be remake a lit.

    My proposition is to nerf Laser a little in order to buff flare.

    Level 1 - 6 radius reveal
    Level 2 - 9 radius reveal and reveal units -1 armor debuff
    Level 3 - 12 radius reveal and reveal units -1 armor debuff

    Laser Designator
    Level 1 - 2 armor reduction instead of 1 armor reduction
    Level 2 - 3 armor reduction instead of 3 armor reduction
    Level 3 - 4 armor reduction instead of 5 armor reduction

    Now you have the choice between a better view and a small debuff or just a big debuff and mono reveal. You can also mix.

    It s just an idea and of course other ideas are welcome, but I really think that Flare need to be revalorised without destroying the use of LD cause it s fun too.

    I also want to know why FO have passivly Flare and why for only 10 energy, when recon flare need to be learn and cost 20energy.
  2. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure what I want to say, but I feel like saying No.

    When you said "What is a scout's job?", My thoughts aligned differently.

    Flare doesn't make sense in that context anymore, simply because, how is that any different from before? Ooh, it reduces armor. But, that doesn't make him scout better, does it?

    Because things such as Huggers, and Stranglers exist, there will never be a Scouting class. Mobility Recon is the only class able to Scout without being killed, because of Cloak, Reflexes, Countermeasures, and Refresher.

    Cloak and Refresher become mandatory, because of huggers. If you're planning to scout, expect no team assistance. The entire purpose of a scout is to be away from the team, and check out the area around them. You find things, and either drop them along the planned route for the team, or bring them to the team. You shouldn't be close to the team, but just running around finding things for the team.

    Unfortunately, NOTD won't let you do this. First off, the Experience system would be against such play. Second off, there are enemies designed to prevent this type of play. And lastly, all routes do ample amounts of scouting, making this type of play, obsolete.

    What you proposed, is completely irrelevant to the purpose of a the Surveillance Recon, as a scout. It does not buff his capabilities as a Scout. Now, you're more motivated to Flare enemies you will be / are fighting, and Flare becomes similar to countermeasures in its usage.

    As far as why FO has a passive randomly air-dropped flare at location skill available, that is because it was part of a Rework, and isn't something the FO does himself, but requests an orbital satellite to drop down a flare at that location, and they aren't that accurate. The Recon's flare, is part of his suit.
  3. Jercy

    Jercy Well-Known Member

    Unless you are going to LD every single target with lvl 3 LD then flare is greater than LD. Flare is the best, period.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The Surveillance Recon is not a scout. He is support, by increasing the team's vision, giving them supplies, and debuffing enemies (directly and indirectly). He gets the ability to scout as a Tier 3, in addition to more support skills.

    The FO's flare is very inaccurate and is used to sight for artillery strikes.
  5. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    Grammar nazi here, I believe it is spelt "period", not "peroid" :)

    This might sound stupid but I guess I learn something new everyday.

    And about the original post, even if the survcon was meant to be a scout, the suggestions you gave wouldn't assist scouting. Instead, it would just change LD a bit and add an armor debuff effect on flare.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The Surveillance Recon aids in scouting, yes. His flares are incredibly useful in finding things, and for looking up cliffs. But he is not a scout in the "true" sense, like the Mobility Recon is. At the end of the day, he is a support class.
  7. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    hmmm out of all the classes out there.. recon is in one of the most well put together. A surv recons job is to observe the battle. flares for those pesky highground zombies and around those scary corners, laser designate to identify the weak spots in zombies. Heartbeat sensor to detect the zombie ambush and of course the blue circle, basically everybodys best friend on the battle field. With that being said if your unable to scout with s surv recon its by your own fault and not the class.
  8. Kusanosky

    Kusanosky New Member

    Ty for all answer.

    I know rec sur is not a scout like rec mob, but he can scout the way for the team who can see for example hugger coming.

    So, I am able to scout as rec surv but only after UP LD and SS. Other way people will say "Omg noob rec!".
    Give a debuff armor to flare doesnt help for scouting, it s true, but people will more accept you upgrade flare sooner and that will help you for scout.

    Lvl 2 flare is good and lvl 3 is just awasome. I already scout as you said Lulz and also for detect hugger, but I find sad to be oblige to wait around lvl 7 for do this well.
  9. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    all you need to scout well with recon is level 3.. aka a couple seconds after the gates go down( if you have cp which i assume you do since you seem to like recon).. people call you nub who cares they obviously dont know what there talking about... either way adding an armor debuff to a flare just makes very little sense in a realistic point of view.
  10. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Ganna actually have to agree with kith and others on this. Ive never seen a flare debuff someones armor in real life, why the hell would it do that AND somehow male surv recon more reconessance based. If u want to be a true scout go mob like everyone said. Reconessence is a support role even as mob, so as to the first post, either skill supports the team, just in different ways. If you give an armor debuff to flare who would ever want to use ld? Ftw ive never heard anyone request me to get ld over flare, its always flare. Not that i ever listen to what they say.
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Well, back in ye olden days of :AM, Flare Guns and Recon Flares were absolutely awesome because they dropped enemy movespeed by 40% because zombies got distracted by the incredibly bright light.

    However, nowadays, Survcon's flares don't do that, simply because... man, Survcon would be so stupidly powerful if they did. Besides, we have Countermeasures for a reliable Recon disable.
  12. Ümlaut

    Ümlaut New Member

    Kusanosky mainly talks about alpha, i think: we're from EU. Else it's pub, and there you can even try to hyrbid demo without being labelled noob material.

    Thing is, reco are asked to grind ld lvl 3 then ss asap. Haven't tried yet to check what happens when you skip heartbeat for improved flares, but counters can be accepted. Even if it's a bit after their main useful spots.

    If you ever try to mob rec, you're happily looked down because of the lack of station, or -may- be considered useful for civs if you're a really good player. I exagerate just a bit.
  13. Kusanosky

    Kusanosky New Member

    spartanhija,notd is not real life, but real dead. :D
    To be honest, I don't find so stupid that debuff armor cause they are easiest to see or cause the light "blind" them a little. (Or As said Kithrix.)

    Why that will never replace LD? Because the energy cost and the armor debuff is not the same and together it s always better.

    Anyway, recon is maybe fine and doesnt need a buff.
    I don t know.

    Ümlaut, you read in my mind. ;)
  14. nyacro

    nyacro New Member

    I don't think adding armor reduction will help (i also think recon is fine as he is(lvl3 LD + lvl2 scaner already gives -7 armor)). But something like auto-designating (at least for items) to reaper or flares could help in scouting (and make him op x_x).
  15. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    This auto designate intrigues me.

    How about a % chance with flares (increasing per level) to auto cast current level of designate on flared enemies? % chance is applied to each enemy separately.

    Would have to rethink energy cost though.
  16. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Flares corpses, gets epilectic shock from mass of circles.
  17. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    Heh, more patients for me. (currently doing Neuro rotations. lawful evil ftw)
  18. TheSilenced

    TheSilenced New Member

    if all your using is flare to look for items your doing it wrong drone is the scout your looking for...disposable cheap and fast, best part i saved for last FLYING
    No mobcon can see up a cliff unless he gets flare and since most items troll by being hidden from plain sight a mobcon might miss what a reaper sscon would not and with the added bonus of a 40 radius(less then this im sure) radar you definitely see everything reason not to flare zombie buildups (can your mobcons do that?) if you say sscon is NOT a scout i agree with you...i say he is the utility character any good team needs to survive, anyway mobcons tend to think they are dark templars and cb stuff heheh....they never see the trollfestors coming
  19. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    If you were going for realism it would stun someone similar to a flash grenade, unless they were far from the flares position, in which case i suppose a quick blind may be realistic although if your going to kill someone your going to kill them, or at least you think you are, so a distant flash wont stop you. As i already stated being inside or very close to the flash would cause serious blindness and stun for a few minutes.
    This is probably less likley to be added into the game. A flash does not cause someone to lose armor. Maybe if add a chance for crit as it leaves any victims more vulnerable to attack.
  20. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    you can keep telling me im doing it wrong by scouting for items with flares... and i'll keep NOT believing you.

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