Rating Evaluation

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by brizingr5, Apr 6, 2013.

  1. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    Could somebody explain to me the mechanics of how rating loss is determined by the game? One of the flukes I always saw in it was how you could lose nearly indefinite rating from constantly getting hit, but you lost so little (comparably) by just simply dieing. Unfortunately for many classes, this magical number at which your rating starts to tank can be as low as 30-40.

    Is there any particular reason why this is? Is it intended? Is it the way it should be? Why?


    Side note: Yes, while this thread is in direct response to the shields update, I was more curious as to the rating system itself for this thread than the whole shields hits topic thing. If we could keep this thread more informational and less ranting/elitist based, that'd be awesome. Thanks.
  2. Shooz
    • Donator

    Shooz NOTD Staff: Killjoy

    ArcanePariah or Ability should be able to answer this in depth. If it's Arcane, be prepared to read a lot. ;]
  3. Ginger Gerald

    Ginger Gerald Well-Known Member

    I can't give you a definite answer, hell, I can't even give you an answer at all. However, you could try searching the old forums. There were significantly more discussions of the game mechanics, like the formula for determining a weapon's damage against an enemy of multiple classifications.
  4. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    There were none on death induced rating loss. Hits did though. Unfortunately not all of it was implemented (like higher rating = more loss).

    Simply put, it was made that way at the start and has not been touched till now.

    It is currently being discussed though.

    For what it's worth, I agree with 1 of the suggestions, that being NM, Normal and Recruit games should have different rating loss rates penalties with death.
  5. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    I guess I'm pretty much waiting on arcane or ability to reply before I can make any suggestions, but as far as rating loss and such go, I think that higher rated players should have some leeway in lower sq/easier games. In the nightmare games they play to get their rating so high, they have a group of really good players who all know what they're doing, and they effectively carry each other. In pubs/normal ac games, you end up with the exact opposite. You don't have people who you know will have your back, and you inevitably suffer from it.

    Yes, you would think that in an easier game they should be wrecking like it's nobodies business, but because of the way this is a team-based game where you can't get very far without them, it's unfair to punish the pros for playing with the noobs.
  6. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    We'll come back to this because I've asked Kith to lead the effort to make a more complete assessment and recommendation on the Rating system.

    Generally, things that drive Rating are listed below. New players (1500 Rating and low XP) should find their Rating fluctuate more because we are trying to find their destination Rating (a place where players typically maintain based on Skill level - i.e. our best approximation of it).

    Increase
    - Finish objectives quicker
    - Nightmare mode
    - Completing some optional missions
    - Victory and overall fraction of players alive

    Decrease
    - Take X hits (depends on class/difficulty)
    - Death
    - Failing core missions (e.g. Tanaka dying)
    - Taking too long to complete game/missions
    - Civilians dying
  7. Klobber

    Klobber Well-Known Member

  8. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    That's the effects of rating on the player, not how rating is gained/lost (or at least nowhere near the detail I was looking for)
  9. Klobber

    Klobber Well-Known Member

    So you missed the whole first paragraph on the wiki??? Pretty much says what Abi said. I imagine the details are a bit complex and can't be explained easily. AP probably knows the details. You can ask him if he's not too busy.
  10. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    It doesn't include specifics of how rating loss compounds on your hits as time goes on, the exact impacts of death on it, and it completely lacks direct numbers. Yes, that is a brief description of rating. No, that is absolutely nothing to go by for a basis of what needs to be changed with he system.
  11. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    I can't figure it out from the mapscript 100%, but this is what I'm guessing.

    It's easy to find out exactly how much missions reward/penalize rating gain/loss, but the specific of how you lose rating in hits is too difficult for me to say with 100% accuracy.

    I believe smart (gold) reloading increases rating though.

    There's something like a hit par for each mission. If your total number of hits exceeds that par, your rating will suffer. For example, ACW12b - Compliance Nexus has a hit par of 70. If you have 71+ hits, I presume you will lose some rating.

    The hit par is further modified on a per player basis to be higher and lower for certain classes
    Tech = 11x
    Flamer = 11x
    Assault = 16x
    Medic = 1.25x
    Rifleman = 1.0x
    Marksman = 0.7x
    Recon = 0.8x
    Demo = 15x
    Chem = 1.6x
    Pathfinder = 0.7x
    Eng = 1.0x
    Cmd = 1.0x
    Psi Ops = 1.0x
    Rating 1800+ = 0.6x
    Rating 1700+ = 0.7x
    Rating 1600+ = 0.8x
    Nightmare = 2x

    At each hit par check, as long as the squad rating is > 1600, you will lose a certain amount of rating based on your current rating.
    2100 = -6
    1900 = -4
    1800 = -3
    1700 = -2
    1600 = -1

    If this is all/mostly true, then the rating losses only really matter if you get a lot of hits. For example, a high rating marksman would be allowed 29 hits by Alpha Company Compliance Nexus. In nightmare, this doubles to 58.
  12. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    I'd heard about that gold reload thing a while back and tested it as much as I could for a month straight, with inconclusive results. It's possible that's a rumor that's been perpetuated for quite some time. (since before I started playing in the first place.)
  13. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    Ah-hah! I see the issue. Early hits are effectively being counted twice.

    With this system, you get penalized for your net hits at every time it checks your hit par. So your early hits, or if you went over par early on, cuts into your performance later on, so on and so forth.

    What I would suggest is this whole "hit par" system have a separate counter for each section, much like a golf course (ironic how accurate that is for hits being "on par," and no pun intended, despite where its use originally came from). While you may have an over-all +/- par for the entire course, you also have an individual par per hole. I think that rating should be based on either the final amount of hits(how on par you were with the entire mission), or based on how many hits you accumulated in between each par check (how on par you were during each section).

    Kith, I think this whole system is something that should definitely be included when looking at the rating rework. If we could take a second look at the exact numbers used for this and maybe tweak them a little be to be more forgiving with the whole shields thing, at the very least, it wouldn't hurt the performance of the rating system.

    Rockz, thank you very much. I believe this is more then enlightening to more than a few people.
  14. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Gold reload does jack for rating. I remember in sec being at -50 at end game I was -30. Didn't take any extra hits. When SMM my gold reloads are overly precise with bar/sting. We're talking about over 100golds
  15. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    I think every 15 gold reloads you get 1 rating. Considering I probably go through ~45 mags in a game, that's a paltry 3 rating, if I hit it every time, which I probably won't. Additionally, it might only be once per game, so at 15 gold reloads, you get 1 rating and never again.
  16. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    Yes, there was a player who spread this around in an effort to "convince" the new "vets" at the time to actually use the active reloads. Said player is inactive now though.

    Semi related, do kills/exp/level affect rating gain/loss?
    I have noticed several times now that players with roughly the same rating levels and similar hits taken but drastically different kill counts seem to get different rating loss/gain rates.
    (FO and Commando, MM and Recon, 2 Riflemen were the classes compared)
  17. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    I disagree. The rating par should be decreased per mission and it should be made so that hits are recalculated between missions. Doing poorly during scrapyard ambush shouldn't ruin your rating throughout the game. The current way is an absolutely silly way to do it.

    A bad player is going to continue getting hit. An unlucky player shouldn't be majorly punished.

    I still want rating to be more difficult to attain though.
  18. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Troll solution: Max rating gain per game = 5.

    For serious though, he's on to something. I believe the rating system should be modified from its current form, to better suit what the game is now, as opposed to the archaic ways that were in place a long time ago
  19. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Didn't CP also have a factor in rating gain/loss?
    I think that level might do. Because higher xp players loose more than lower when it comes to same classes same hits same rating. However I'm not sure if it was CP or Level/xp
    I really lack info about specifics like this since rating was never a factor I payed close cared attention to.
  20. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Yes, gold reloads at 10-15 add 1 Rating (1x max per game). It's not more than 1x because it would unfairly benefit people who use SMGs vs. Marksman Rifles (less reloads).

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