Questions and Suggestions.

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Shooz, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    My luck isn't that good, so I never tried it. Even with Maxed Reflexes I notice my PRACTICAL dodge rate (Not listed, but what actually happens in game) seems to be closer to 10-20%. I know on EU (Or have heard) that MobCons do that a lot and actually do reflex tank. I'm not sure if it's just a statistical anomaly or not. Somehow I think it's just my own bad luck transferring to NOTD as anytime there was a random chance of something in game I tended to have the short end of the stick. Like when Endurance granted lives, I could have 9 Endurance up all day long, multiple games, and I would average 1 extra life every 5 games I played to conclusion (so an hour and a half or more of game time), and others would get closer to 3-5 lives every game out of it. Int bonuses, same deal. I got 1 maybe every 10-15 games I played. Other people seemed to get one about every third game.
  2. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    REFLEX TANK FTW!! :p I do it and maybe started the trend
  3. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    I've only seen it once in an organized team since this summer and that time it was because I randomed recon when we already had another recon. The game leader wouldn't let me scout away from the team much anyways past the initial move to the armory because it also messed with the mini AI enough that they would get caught enough out of place to die.
  4. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Give Thermal Sight a Critical Hit Chance? Yay or Nay

    Reasoning
    Having them equipped shows where the most heat is located on a body letting you know where it is ideal to aim for which is mostly vital parts (In humans, the head and left side of the chest)

    Q: Reaper, the things you are fighting are the dead, they have no heat.

    A: Our zombies are the result of infestation and a complete host take over at such a speed is bound to involve a whole bunch of metabolic processes which will give off heat. Plus, future tech will allow for Tactical Sights to see chemical concentrations, gas emissions, electrical response across synapses etc... Predator Vision if you will. :p


    Plus all Thermal Sight does is reveal cloaked units and does nothing else. There aren't alot of of cloaked creeps out there and when there are they come for about 5-10 minutes and then fin. Everyone these days have some points invested in Perception which lets them deal with most troublesome of them being Wraiths.
  5. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Tbh thermals are so common that giving them Crits is rather powerful. Note that each %crit is identical to x% straight damage increase.
    Personally I'd rather stay away from that and maybe make them give you 1-2% nonstacking attack speed as you can react to threats faster.
  6. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    A nay would also suffice :p
  7. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I do think Thermal Eyes should get SOMETHING... just not sure what. Lately as I've played, no one even bothers touching Thermals. Not even the old "Oh, quick, NoobCon go Reaper Fetch me some Thermals for BO because I forgot to get them!" nah. They usually just sit there all game. And it's not really due to perception since the True Sight on Perception seemed to have been nerfed. It's more about people actually using Road Flares. Which is nice. I'm glad to see that. But Road Flares to pretty much everything you need thermals for, are more than common enough to use during any time you need Detection, and are also useful outside of just pure detection. All of which makes them, more or less, strictly better than Thermal Eyes.

    I don't like the concept of Strictly Better. There's very few things in NOTD which really fit the category of Strictly Better. Gauss Rifle to HK is about the only one I can really think of. Or the C-series linear armor progression. And even that isn't necessarily Strictly Better.

    The problem being... I can't think of anything to really give them that would be good, make the item desirable, and not potentially break open the game. I think the +Crit Chance would fall into the "Potentially break open the game" unless the bonus on it was so slight that the item wouldn't be desirable. Like would an Arms Assault rather have Thermal Eyes with some +3% crit chance on it, or an AP Ammo with -1 armor and 10% damage buff? The AP is clearly a better choice for DPSing. The Crit MIGHT be worth it for Blood Frenzy Stunlocking. But I don't think most would go for it when the Math clearly says that the AP would pay off better. And if it was 10% crit (minimal value it'd need to be worth the DPS vs Ammo Mods really), you can have sickness where with Thermal Eyes, Max Crit Strikes, and Perception stacked up an Arms Assault would have what, something like a base 60% chance to crit including the natural crit percentage on top of items/talents? That could be rape, pure and simple, two Arms assaults with Gauss Rifles could end up stunlocking entire enemy mobs as they come into range, probably nigh indefinitely if they have any NoobCon, Field Aid Medic, Field Engineer support (Which is likely in Easy Company).

    And those are my insane thoughts at 3:30 AM...
  8. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Another idea would be (Since they are thermal sights) to have them enable a weaker version of SMM scope. They would grant the long range detection, but also let you look over walls (no sight extension, that's for Occs).
  9. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I prefer the crits concept. After all, I came up with it forever ago with the K Report on Items. I also came up with the alternative of Air Vision ala Scope, and I'm pretty sure that was shot down because holy fuck powerful.

    Still, I don't think buffing therms with critical strike would be a bad thing. There are two that hard-spawn, one that comes with Ammo Drop, and the rest are scattered. While common, I don't think 3% would hurt anything in the long run. It'd sure as hell make them more popular in both higher and lower level games, at least.
  10. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    The attack speed would as well. It would also make team consider whether firing faster is worthwhile in a given situation, while crit would be a no brainer.
  11. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Yeah, crit sounds fine, makes it a detect + poor mans HP. Which are rare already.
  12. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    As I stated, crit would be straight up benefit with no drawback while having synergy with making talents more powerful too (assault and rifleman) which is why I think attack speed is a better alternative to make slow firing weapons have a bit more use but with a small drawback of increased ammo consumption and more player micro on reloads.
  13. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    If we were to do crit, no more then 5% I would say, if IAS, then 5% also would be fine.
  14. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    As per previous page I'm thinking 2%, max 3%.
  15. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Riot Shield complex?
  16. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I'm a fan of small rather than large buffs/numbers for starters especially on items which are common and everyone can and would want to use
  17. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    2 things about attack speed vs Critical concept

    1. Critical, when it strikes it ends up saving you ammo than spending it. Not going to be a good thing in Nightmare games and your starved for ammo. "Who is wearing TS? Drop it!"

    2. How do you justify/reason for an attack speed increase?


    And if there is a worry about it synergizing to well or breaking the game you put it under its own type of critical strike (Item)
  18. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    1. Like I said a drawback is a good thing so people pay more attention to what they use rather than wear anything they have space for. Similar to Laser Rifle and AP ammo. It encouraged more thoughtful play by players and encourages ammo management. Currently even in NM without bug usage ans SS rec ammo is plentiful unless people use 2+ smg or m5.

    2. As stated on previous page, thermal vision let's you react to threats faster and be more confident at hitting them thus aiming less hard and shooting faster.
  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The "drawback" is that it takes up an item slot that could be housing an AP or an HP or an HE or ect. I don't really like the Attack Speed increase concept, it just doesn't... feel right. Something that reduced recoil, like a gun strap or an adjustable grip and stock? Sure, I could see that, but not thermal goggles.

    Additionally, I don't really see an issue with more crits synergizing with the Assault's skillset. I mean, yeah, more crits is more stuns, but the Assault already essentially has permastun with all but the slowest weapons. We've already passed the threshold, there's no point in being careful about it anymore. Besides, an Assault featuring three Thermals is actually dealing less damage than one sporting a single HP, so... if anything, putting crits on Thermals pushes the Assault to more of a supporting role than anything else.
  20. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    My suggestion was for nonstacking bonus.
    Also, since mods are in high demand nothing is stopping that Assault from going 2HP 1 TS.

    Imo we have so many means of stacking crits including perception that some diversity such as AS would be a welcome change besides being not a straight no drawback buff

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