Questions and Suggestions.

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Shooz, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    No, you're misrepresenting me. I NEVER said that Combat had too much energy regen. I was saying that the Combat Rifleman had a DPS Template that you didn't personally like or believe to be valid to the game, the "Slightly better than average and very steady over time" category.

    Consider, even when Bloodlust was constantly maintained, that the Combat Rifle (According to men more Math than I), still the fourth/fifth highest DPS only. Commando beat it out. Combat Engineer beat it out. Arms Assault beat it out. And conditionally the Pyro Flamethrower could beat it out long as Frenzy was maintained (40% AS, 120% Damage, with an innate 30% damage boost with Igniter), things less sustainable than the Flamethrower dip below Pure DPS and more towards Spike Damage, so I'm not counting something like Subtlety Marksmen.

    Fifth Best is typically not something that most would call overpowering.
  2. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    No, you cant. Do not lie, and do not kid yourself. You can only sustain bloodlust for extended durations if thats ALL you are doing. Throwing even a single grenade into the mix will cut down your energy by 1/4. It discourages the use of focus fire, and heavily discourages the use of improved focus fire because the increased energy cost on top of bloodlust usage. The combat rifle is now one of the only classes that cannot choose all active skills and comfortably have enough energy to use them. Choosing both grenades and pshot will guarantee that one of those skills is the preferred, and the other never sees the light of day. Outside of recruit, grenades still dont hold up because other aoe attacks are better, and much less problematic to the player's energy.
  3. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Consider though that Pshot is moving to Survival and won't factor into the calculations in the future.
    Also, most rifles I know at least only get 1 or the other, not both of the actives.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Consider that Nite still has a point. Fire Up is getting the energy cost increase instead of the replacement for IFF. I designed around the Crifle having the energy to spare, that's why his FF cost goes up and his Bloodlust costs as well. People complained, and I compensated with the energy costs, but now we have overcompensation because Ability felt it was necessary to drop the energt regen as well as increase the energy cost. Also, before you say I can't know the effect that increasing the cost of focus fire on the Crifle, every crifle I've played with has overleveled into Survival and gotten IFF. Before they grumbled once or twice about energy, but with IFF on, they consistently complianed about it because of its increased energyy costs to the poitn where they stopped using it altogether to sustain themselves better.
  5. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I have played almost only (combat) rifle since the change and had no problems whatsoever. The only time my energy pool was dry was during queen after 2nd shriek and during post-ere1 waves holdout because I spammed more than was needed (i.e. see 3 hulks, use talent).
    In Alpha, I haven't ever run out of energy at all or felt the energy curtailed my use of the combat rifleman.

    As for IFF, that's on the survival tree currently. I don't think it is fair to make the energy designed around using several skills from both trees simultaneously, but to balance it around using skills from one tree. Otherwise I'd have to complain that the medic, flamer, Demo and FO need more regeneration.

    When Fire Up is implemented, it may have a cost and rightly so, but as you will surely agree, you can't expect a rifleman to be permanently under 2 pseudo passives (actives that confer a buff and have same duration as cooldown) as well as spam the only true active (grenade) and never into energy problems.

    People should rightly have to choose what skills they use when and consider whether what they are doing may be overkill and if so, curtail the overkill to manage their energy better. As someone who also plays medic extensively, I find energy management due to slow regeneration and high cost skills to be very important. Why should only the medic have to manage its energy?

    Rifleman will always be able to use either fire up or bloodlust permanently or both together for a considerable amount of time. And when he decides to save up some energy, his superb passives will carry him quite well too.

    It is human nature to complain when what you are doing is changed and you don't agree with it. But it is also human nature to adapt to changes and make the best of them and in the process improve your play and be less reliant on things you took for granted (such as near infinite energy)

    I believe Ability did a good job to change it to 1.36 instead of 1.2. The regeneration right now is spot on and for me at least has taught me to not spam nades like a madman because I see 2 mutas or 3 ghouls but rather use bloodlust or my knife/kiting better to deal with minor threats.
  6. Miracle
    • Development Team
    • CN/TW Liaison

    Miracle NOTD Staff: Assistant of many things

    Will there be changes for protection Assault? At the moment three of his skills are passives that adds armour, safeguard isn't bad but it's only slightly worse than +7 armour.
  7. Kage

    Kage Member

    I believe that Cohesion needs some sort of remake.It gives a meagre bonus to the Assault and does not help the team much as a good tank would prevent the team from getting hit,especially dangerous zombies.

    Also,would it be possible to add Parasites to the Camera mission?
  8. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    [align=center]I like what Cohesion does at the moment. Its a Devotion Aura.:p
    [​IMG][/align]
    But something I would suggest to it is that it gets an addition to what it currently has. The armor bonus to teammates does help fend against ranged mainly being Infested Marines and Gargoyles as their damage does drop a good deal to armor.

    My suggestion would be that for each point of armor the Assault gains damage reduction. If he has 10 armor then at Level 1 (1% per armor) it can equate to 10% reduction. Level 2 (2% per armor) it equates to 20%. The Assault is purely just armor but there are things that go right through that to a degree being Banelings, Devourers, Agrons and friendly fire from overzealous teammates.

    Adding this damage reduction to Taunt will have him in the end being able to reduce damage to a large degree.

    Why damage reduction? Wont this make him even more powerful and truly near unkillable combined with his high armor?

    Yes it would. The Assault is a defensive unit which is meant to last the longest in the fight no matter what happens. I find it strange that a unit which can survive so many things can still be so vulnerable to other things mainly being Banelings. Banelings are his natural enemy next to Parasites but the Assault should have considered shock control and violent impacts against his armor and see to it that his armor can withstand small to heavy firearms fire (Stinger) and impact detonations along with explosives.

    This can be seriously overpowered for the Assault. Just an idea. But if it works proper then when he does get Safegaurd a nuke may be the only way to truly stop him. :p Or. . . He will be able to survive it for once.
  9. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    It's called reactive armor vs banelings :p

    And I like cohesion. It makes him unique and helps teammates. He's EC only too, where you find most new players who tend to tank hits.
  10. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I wouldn't mind if Cohesion was damage reduction for allies. Thus "All marines in X range get 1/2 armor (Including Assault), Other Marines also get 10%/20% damage reduction."
  11. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Gogo 2 assa or assa demo :D
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The community (not just the general population, but several vets as well) has been asking me if I wanted to do anything with Cohesion since the day I was hired, and a couple weeks before.

    So far the only suggestions that were worth anything were these:

    Give Cohesion a "purge" effect active
    Simple enough. Make it like a watered down version of Combat Hardened. Removes ailments for an energy cost on something like a 30 second cooldown. Potentially add an ailment immunity period after using it.

    Give Cohesion percentile damage reduction for the Assault
    Almost exactly as Reaper put it, actually. The numbers were sometimes higher, sometimes lower, but it all pans out to be "make Assault the only tank that can ignore Banelings passively". I assume this came from the Queen's Frenzy gaining a damage increase, but the concept remains the same.
  13. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Something I would like also to get added in addition to Cohesion to the Protection Assault is that Stun causes targets to take increased damage for the duration.

    Level 1 - Stuns for 2 seconds and causes targets to take 15% increased damage.
    Level 2 - Stuns for 4 seconds and causes targets to take 30% increased damage.

    Why the increased damage taken?
    Well from the stunned targets points of view "Oh man, I am so tripping! Whats going on?" Completely disorientated and unable to defend themselves properly. Maybe smaller damage taken figures.

    Just thought of a synergy combination - Taunt + Stun

    Simply, Taunted units that become stunned stay stunned for longer. As to which one of these will control the duration is debatable.
    "YOU MAKIN FUN O ME!? I'LL KICK YOUR ASS YOU FAT DUMPSTER TRUCK!"
    *STUN*
    "Oh man, I am so tripping! Whats going on?" :D
  14. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I thought stun is getting replaced with a toned down Charge
  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    It is. It's a nice concept for Charged enemies to take increased damage for a short duration, though.
  16. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Or maybe for enemies attacking targets with cohesion buff to receive extra damage?
  17. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    Hm, i like first one that you came up with, very simple, but instead of healing aliments, how about, reduction of duration of aliments and less effective on assault? say, damage of venom decreased.

    What do you think of it?
  18. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The problem is that we'd have to make more ailment clones, and I'd rather avoid that if we could.
  19. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    We should use NOTD Tac Nuke.dds as the Shiva's Icon.
  20. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    About Combat Engineer, I understand the reason why that OD is now located in X1 skill set, but because of that, Combat Engineer now has too much energy left (which can not be used), if you micro X1 well, even with movement speed debuff, its really hard to lose your bot.

    To me, its very inefficient. Even you spamming all skills on engineer, you are pretty much impossible to use them all. Maybe you can re spawn X1 after X1 ran out of energy, but this sounds unlikely.

    Probably, could do something for combat tree, to make full use of those left over energy.

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