Questions and Suggestions.

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Shooz, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Can we please make some changes to the EC start wave to balance them out a bit.

    Current waves:
    - Ghouls
    - Ghouls + Stalker
    - Ghouls + Gargoyle
    - Hugger
    - Hulks

    Ghouls and Huggers are pretty much tied for most experience gain, although ghoul wave tends to give more due to 0.25 shared XP per kill and a ghoul only giving a base 2.5xp per kill which adds up very quickly. Huggers give large kill xp and 0.75 shared XP so unless you kill a hugger you might end up with next to no XP. If you do kill a few you may well be level 3.

    Ghouls + Stalker/Gargoyle give less than the plain ghoul wave and the stalker wave tends to hurt a fair bit too due to creep spawn and drawing of fire.
    I would like to see maybe the XP increased a bit for at leat the Stalker wave as it is a fair bit harder and less rewarding.
    Gargoyle is easy and gives less XP which is OK for the most part - I would like Gargoyles to maybe spawn a bit earlier (before ghouls end) and add about 20% more ghouls than there are currently to make it any challenge at all or add 50% more gargoyles.

    Hulk wave. Gives next to no XP, wastes tons of ammo and tends to be the hardest unless you got a field engie to soften them. As everyone starts with Gauss Rifles, simple slowing will have no effect as you do not deal damage to them at all. MM and randomed flamer have the advantage as they pierce armor.
    This wave really needs the most work to make it less tedious and remakeworthy. Sending an enemy with 11 armor against a level 1 team with Gauss Rifles simply is not a great idea and does not teach anything - it might even make things worse with people thinking its OK to use Gauss vs Hulks. Your dps against them is mainly going to be knives and everyone is going to take a number of hits against them (esp as they spawn creep on death) due to the tank not being able to hold them just like that.
    Even after the effort of killing them, you gain next to no XP. People are usually 1/3 of the way to level 2 after killing this wave, which equates to maybe 35 xp each.
    I would actually be in favor of replacing this with something else entirely - i.e basic zombies + large zombies with a few Seekers mixed in. It needs to have a lot of basic zombies though to match the XP gain of the other waves.
  2. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    I wish we had the old amount of spawns from that wave, back when people actually Leveled up from that wave without being a Medic/Recon, and without hogging excessively.
  3. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Medal of Honor level 3 (and if applicable any prior) movespeed bonuses do not work.

    Tested that just now against someone with level 1 MoH.

    AP can attest.

    Makes me sad.
  4. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Ability still hasn't fixed that..?
  5. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    [split] Technician Balance

    No quarter now has same restrictions as assault jump - the issue that remains (a bug) is that you can still jump up ledges you aren't supposed to get up on with Assault jump (and revised no quarter).

    Some people on EU have pretty much perfected this in that they can always get up/down a ledge whenever they want to with assault jump.

    From observation , it seems to be aiming at close to the max range of assault jump and aiming at the very edge of a wall. Not 100% sure but that's how it seemed to be.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: Technician Balance

    Something tells me you're in the wrong thread, bud.
  7. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Liaison

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    That's cute. NiteShade, Kith, and I can roll 3 man Apollo all day without cheesing. Same could be said about Survival if we took it more seriously. It sounds like players need to learn how to use Pathfinder's right tree to support allies instead of cheesing. Don't nerf the class, nerf the babies.

    Just put pathing blockers on all unaccessible high and low ground.
  8. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Yup. Just pathing block all the ravines. Then open all of Apollo's gates at the start of Survival. I don't mean unlock, I mean physically open them.

    Bonus points, don't put the change in the changelog. I wanna see what happens when they think they are going to cheese it successfully, probably around IVAX and Seth, and find the two metal beasts right in the lab, wrecking their shit.
  9. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Liaison

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    Y U NO give Mindblast to Psi Ops (in place of Mind Ravage) and give Nano Medic something more Nano Medicy?
  10. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Y U NO reduce surgical laser cooldown or cost when skilling lvl2 and 3? :p (like the new saline and plasma discharge)
  11. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Hmm. Trade in the Bonus vs. Stun for the Stun itself. Not bad. I wouldn't mind a nanotech "poison" at tier one. Something like this:

    Nanotoxin: 20 energy, 7 second cool down. 9 casting range, 3 radius AoE.

    Enemy units in the area are inflicted with Nanotoxin.

    Level 1: Nanotoxin reduces attack damage by 10% for 5 seconds. At end of duration they are stunned for 1 second.
    Level 2: Nanotoxin reduces attack damage by 20% for 6 seconds. At end of duration they are stunned for 1.5 seconds. 5% chance for Non-Heroics to be instantly killed at end of duration.
    Level 3: Nanotoxin reduces attack damage by 30% for 7 seconds. At end of duration they are stunned for 2 sectonds. 10% chance for Non-Heroics to be instantly killed at end of duration.
  12. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Medic needs a second passive skill currently due to card crowding.
    My proposal would be to move capacitors to field aid or create a new talent called nano suit which increases regeneration and resistance. Something like combat hardened but passive as combat hardened will be completely removed from subcomm. Very much bothers me that aid medic has little personal survivability and stacks ailments like a normal rine.
    For that, remove mindblast and move nano shield to nanotech.
  13. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I dunno. I find I need the Capacitors more when I hybrid or Nanotech. Rare that I feel I need (Or even want) them when I go Field Aid. Mostly because unless my team is a total gong show I just never run into energy issues. Hell, I'm the one medic on NA that goes "Fuck PAR, I don't need it, give it to the MM already!" Likewise I do think the shield should stick with the Field Aid. Only because the Shield is how he heals the other type of tank after all. Kinda weird to have an Assault Tank and a DemoTank (Or Flamethrower) requiring two different medic types in order to cover their asses. Not saying it's a bad idea necessarily. Just I can't wrap my head around a reason to do it other than to move Capacitors to Field Aid... but feeling like Capacitors aren't that needed on Field Aid.

    I'll probably think up some passive possibility for the Medic as soon as I return from provisioning up.
  14. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I think you kinda misunderstood me:
    Field Aid:
    T1: Heal, SL
    T2: Nano Suit, Nano Weave
    T3: Restoration

    Nanotech:
    T1: Nano Shield, Nano Strength
    T2: Energy Capacitors, VI
    T3: Nano Sear

    It wouldn't force you to go nano for demos - shield is readily available.
  15. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    1/2 Shield FA? Sounds fun :D
  16. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Liaison

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    I play medic far too rarely to contribute to the Mindblast replacement, but I play Psi Ops enough to know that Mindblast (even the name) is a better fit for Pusherella than for some no-name Medic.
  17. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Worried that will lead back to every Healomedic who knows what they are doing automatically going back to being Hybrid. I mean there was a lot of work, debate, and ideas thrown around just to make it worth going full Field Aid and not Hybridizing every time.

    That said, the Passive I promised when I returned from Provisioning. Took what you might have wanted, but made it more, well, proficient medic friendly. It's either a really weird gimmicky situation where the medic is taking hits anyway, or just a bad medic.

    Containment Protocols: Passive Talent

    Level 1: Reduces chance of hits causing an ailment by 10% in a radius 6 around the medic.
    Level 2: Reduces chance of hits causing an ailment by 20% in a radius 6 around the medic.

    Parasites, still deadly. Same with Gargoyles and Infested Marines with their high chances. Severely reduces the troll ability for a single ghoul scratch to inflict a terrible ailment like Cripple.

    Not flashy, not something I'd grab over Nanoweave. But something I'd take on the way to Restoration.... unless I woke up and realized that Hybridizing is the way to go again.
  18. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    What talent would you replace/move for yours?

    My personal take on the FA medic is that Heal simply is very niche and lacks utility when you have weave/restoration. Yes it is a T1 talent, but once you get Restoration you will never use it, unlike other classes' T1 which remain useful even at the end.

    Outside of Heal, the FA tree is decent, though my feeling is that it needs some sort of a passive to improve the rate at which you can fix people.
    AV cost is fairly high if you consider troll larvae and SL has a high cooldown which makes mass bleeds rather difficult to deal with (you essentially have to Restoration spam at the same time)
    So maybe a Passive which boosts both SL and AV but also provides the medic itself with some resistance.
    Perhaps the passive could look like this even (not considering the resistance aspect as of yet):
    1: Reduces cost of AV and SL by 2
    2: Reduces cost of AV and SL by 4
    3: Reduces cost of AV and SL by 5 and fixes 2 stacks per use

    That would go together with SL getting a cooldown reduction of 1 per level.
    Base cooldown of 7 (as it is currently) and at level 2 it becomes 6 and at level 3 is becomes 5 seconds.

    Which wouldn't be overpowered considering for instance that in Sec, Chem has a ray that can insta fix everyone on the team of all ailments (even those with 15 venom, 10 OW, cripple, madness, blind) with 1 shot besides having innate AV and Tech essentially has a passive team nano weave going at no cost.

    How that would encourage people to stick with the FA tree though is another question. For that you probably would need to make Restoration even more appealing (it is already very good though). Perhaps make it passively reduce the cooldown of all Field Aid talents (and antivenom) by 1?
  19. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    On the Field Aid tree the skill I'd look to axe? Probably the Heal Beam. For all the reasons you hit on. Only reason it seems to be there is because it's a medic and vanilla SC Medics have Heal Beams. As a medic I rarely use it.

    The problem is though that passive healing talents probably aren't going to be very good. And even with the passive you suggested there, I can't really imagine bothering to get it. Probably would just go 3 Surgical Laser and 1 in there. Even the one I suggested above I don't really like. I just think Nanotech is a more fertile area for Passives. Probably people would want to see Mindblast replaced. *shrug* I kinda like having a tier 1 Stun available but i can agree that with competent Nanomedics it tends to get the least amount of use. Viral is quite nice and a welcome addition. I don't particularly like More DoTs myself. It's a decent talent don't get me wrong. Just feel like it's one of those talents that "Doesn't scale well". It's OP in low rating games and Newbie mode, and seems kinda underwhelming in harder modes. But tier three as a passive... eh... not feeling it.

    My rambling thought process is getting down to this. Either replacing Heal Beam or Mindblast. Of the two I think Mindblast could be removed to make a more interesting passive. But I'm not sure what I'd do. Being left with only VI, More DoTs!, and Nanohaste as the only actives on the tree makes it hard to design a decent, but interesting, passive. Just has far too much stuff going on. Be hard to find a Passive that played nice with all of them. Not to mention possibly making one that plays nice with people who have maxed out Field Aid and are crossing over.
  20. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Remove both and replace with your active and my passive?

    I think lvl3 of the passive is extremely useful in NM and Alpha/Sec
    The cost reduction is important too for early-mid game in particular and navy cross.

    I could see myself going 3-3 on T1, get 2 in shield on t2 to skip weave (as SL becomes mainstay for healing with lower cost and cd) and restoration for general healing. Or maybe 1 each in the T2s.

    Alternatively, move the passive SL/AV booster to T2 and Shield to T1.
    Shield on T1 could have exactly the same stats as the T2 shield except the progression to level 2 T2 is longer.
    I.e.
    1: 20 shield
    2: 40 shield 1 armor
    3: 60 shield 2 armor

    The passive would then be:
    1: Reduces cost of AV/SL/Shield/Weave by 3
    3: Reduces cost of AV/SL/Shield/Weave by 5 and AV/SL fixes 2 stacks per use

    Which might seem a bit weak for a T2 passive at first, but when you consider that you could cast Shield at 15E, Weave at 25E, SL at 15E and AV at 10E, it becomes apparent that it has quite a bit of utility when you also consider my Restoration suggestions would reduce cooldown of all skills by 1 (other than Restoration itself)

    The essence is that you have energy capacitors without having energy capacitors - your skill cost less, ergo you can use them more and be more active. Makes medic more micro intensive too as opposed to every 3-6 seconds casting a spell.

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