'Pub has become hell'

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Niktos, Feb 11, 2013.

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  1. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    Avg xp is more than double our days now.
    I think "not a challenge" is an overstatement.

    Although one thing remains true.
    Even EC Pub is harder to play than Alpha/Apollo at times due to sheer # of spawn and weak basic weaponry available.
    Clan Prestige and I go in groups of 2 (because SR would be too high with 3) to help out in pubs,
    but even then with 2 vets and 6 0xp noobs, the spawns are a bit much. The SR would be around 1650 with us in the game and yea... one noob goes astray and they are caught in a wall of zombies pretty much.
  2. Osaze

    Osaze Well-Known Member

    I don't see it as such, the personal challenge isn't really there for me. The team challenge of it is.
  3. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    So are you saying its ez? Cause i think its too easy.
    And the rewards are way higher than u can compare with in the past.
    Play for a month and get 30k compared to play for a month and hope to get 10k
  4. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    If you have to rush things to get speed in recruit games your doing it wrong anyway.
    Edit: i usually take 1h20 and that is with waiting, comms, mine and cameras. [/edit]

    Lately im a pretty lazy teacher, which means i tell the some basics (stick together and dead = dead) and ping them where to go now with a bit of waiting for those that are following. Those that are alive after Tart are usually those that did listen (i dont care if they die because they did not). After that it is usually a smoth game (as smooth as a game cam be that your carrying alone).
  5. Osaze

    Osaze Well-Known Member

    I'm confused as to whether you are agreeing with me or not Fro :) But that could just be the pain meds talking
  6. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    This is going out of topic tbh.
    Sure, game is too easy with preset strats. Sure recruit isnt hard at al. Infact can be soloed with any class.
    Coming up with new/fun/winning/weird strats is the only thing that keeps the vets going (unless their motives is just grinding)[also playing with friends etc].
  7. YetiSwarm
    • Donator

    YetiSwarm Member

    I still remember being a 0 xp newb in a game with only other 0 xp newbs. Let me tell you the story. ... The time was March 2010. The setting: my apartment with 4 of my buddies gaming LAN style even though we all needed to be on the internet anyway (we played private 5-man games which of course didn't help our situation). The cast: moderate gamers including one who games a lot, but is bad at it. The result: 4 remakes before we beat Tart a single time (we kept remaking when said player died). Then we managed to beat Tart and we found ourselves in the airlock with Erebos coming at us because we didn't have any reason to think we had to walk around the map for 15 minutes first. The result: at the end of the night I figured out what a public game was and continued to play until today. And what happened to the others? Drum-roll please ... they all quit.

    The problem of the group of all 0 xp players has been a problem for years and will never end unless this tutorial that's been discussed for months gets made, and then maybe even not depending on the caliber of the tutorial.
  8. Time

    Time New Member

    Hmmm... I actually guess that pub isn't really hell, you just have to talk a lot and wait around a lot for stragglers. I used to really only say very short things b/c I didn't want to talk people to death but if you handhold people it's pretty easy. Although I think every pub game I've had at least 1 or 2 leavers at starport. Definitely easier too though if I just play a tank class so I can run in and taunt when my teammates get in sticky situations. Was able to direct people to Queen then died stupidly not paying attention. But before that I think only 1 deather and 1 leaver.
  9. JackBandit

    JackBandit Member

    Wow I'd love to be apart of this. I've been trying to teach rookies how to play most don't listen, but some do I usually end up friending them.
  10. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    The main issue is that the game does not hand hold you, and one review did explicitly point out that missions are not very explicit.

    I do not know if this is the fault of the game or players. On one hand, NotD is fairly open ended, and you can wander quite a bit, with simply missions listed but no real pressure to do them nor any more visual reminders of where they are. So in this regard, the open sandbox is both a blessing and a curse, giving players the freedom to approach the game any way they choose, but since it isn't forcing any action or making it an on rails experience, it tends to leave players confused. On the other, it seems like players need a forced hand in order to know what to do, and a ton of explicit pointers, otherwise the game is seen as too hard/complicated/etc. In a specific first person shooter (the name escapes me atm), the beta testers reached a point in the game where the only way to progress was to go up some stairs. A random NPC tells the player to not go up there, so the beta testers literally could not progress, eventually had to be told that they HAD to go up said stairs to keep going.

    As Yeti points out, having no one to tell you what to do is incredibly frustrating, and in some ways is fake difficulty. There are many ways to approach the game, but many new players lack the skill to execute any and also their lack of experience means they will wipe quite often. About the only solution I can think of is to make the first half (up to about erebos 1) completely on rails, with the game explicitly telling players where to go and why, and giving no choice in the matter, and then having the tutorial to teach mechanics. We should also publicize any walkthroughs, because for us vets, the game is trivial now in terms of strategy, but we often forget that it took weeks or even months to make such strategies possible.

    However, there will always be a skill floor of sorts to NotD, if you can not cooperate in a team, you will die and so will your team. Also I do believe people take it more negatively in a coop game because you can not blame the superior skill of an opponent for your failure, you really only have yourself, which is probably the origin of some of the elitist attitudes some players (including myself from time to time) have.

    In short, solution from point of view would be

    1) Tutorial to teach mechanics
    2) Possibly make parts of the early game on rails (although the controlled map view of EC recruit somewhat accomplishes this)
    3) Publicize a basic walk through of EC Recruit at a minimum.
  11. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

    I do thank you for writing that, but I must be honest with you as well.

    Hopefully this will help you and I do apologize if my criticism sounds harsh, but I always tell the truth.

    I do monitor the NOTD chat channel on a daily basis mostly to see what everyone is up to. For the most part, it seems like you don't get along with others from time to time, as there have been many public arguments between you and other players. I don't know whos right or who's wrong but there are arguments to say the least.

    There is also the incident between you and Prestige. Yes, we are very wrong with how we treated you in that tryout game. However, you must admit to your faults as well being that you had a pretty "rude" (apologies if this sounds harsh) attitude and you made snide comments for one of our members dying accidentally. In addition to not listening to some of our instructions and not knowing what you were applying for.

    You also decided to take your disputes to the forums by posting it in our thread, when you should know that any dispute you have with anyone should be private.

    Anyways, I dont want to hold any grudges against you and I rather keep away from you but your post in Pub has become hell thread caught my attention so I decided to private message you.
  12. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    Coming back to the topic that kind of rolled on it`s own without my further input. Clarifying time 8)

    Yes my first statements were in regards of 8x 0-100xp players.
    I did some pubs in last days, something i didnt for weeks. I did it in 2ways:
    1.wipe bank and become a silent observer that only sometimes asks 'What to do next?'. It had 2outcomes:
    -there was someone with xp that pinged route, said something sometimes
    -it was void of players with a clue, i then tried to take over the lead. as you can guess 0xp first timer clues are worthless to other first timers so we died...

    2.on my proper bank as asstank to not overwhelm new guys with info i turn 'Stay a while and listen my son' mode. Usual outcome was great, first death around ere2 vortexes or later on queen shriek [i dont count guys that went afk as deaths] and this leads to couple of observations:
    -i wish i had like 60+ flares, i noticed that even after explaining xq+pinging its not surefire way to group up a bunch of new guys. Light a flare tho+ping and they are there instant.
    -someone leaving is a blessing as he works like permanent walking flare
    -always flare holdouts. its probably eu multilang case but 'come up, down there is not safe' doesnt seem to ring a bell even for ones that later ask you something in english
    -we will have raise of ppl in 1-2k xp range soonish, and they will have low ratings, like realy realy low so when you make games dont judge them by ratings, do it by their attitude
  13. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    Your post requires many +1s so I shall give them


    +1 Applies to any high ground holdout (hill, fort, left of airlock entrance if you don't have a tank)

    I... did not think about this. Good insight. +1 reputation
  14. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Actually thats a very good point. Some are to slow to get the concept of X+Q right away. Maybe shared vision in recruit with allies?
  15. Osaze

    Osaze Well-Known Member

    The shared vision was talked about awhile back(read 2 years), and the old -em mode had it.
  16. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    mmmhm. Indeed.
    However it would help pubs that are in recruit level.
  17. Drunk

    Drunk Well-Known Member

    Interesting topic being discussed here. Well from my point of view, the featuring of NOTD has brought in various types of players, so succeeding in pub is mostly decided on the luck of the draw.
    There are some vets out there that end up leading low xp players who cooperate well and are willing to learn. Said teams would likely succeed with little or no losses, resulting with the new players being more motivated to play this again and eventually join the NOTD community.
    Other vets end up with bad teams which almost completely consists of 1)strayers, 2)tkers, 3)ragers, 4)leavers, 5)trolls/noobs using hacked banks, 6)clueless, ignorant players and so on. With such players, the failure rate of pubs increase, resulting in a loss for all sides. With such experiences, it's not unusual for some to end up with the "pub is hell" mentality.
    While I agree that the featuring has increased the number of people consisting of the latter group, I'd also agree that not all hope is lost for pubs. While it is difficult to properly guide noobs, it's possible. Heck, these days I'm having more success in pub games than vet games. It's not hard to lead, one just needs a lot of patience in doing so.
    Hence, my reason for kicking people to pub whenever I see people asking for games in channel. Playing only non-pub games doesn't make you a pro, leading or cooperating well with a team does.
  18. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    How would we feel about making recruit games with one or fewer players above 500xp have full shared vision?
  19. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    Or just make it full vision for those with < X exp and not for everyone. I think 500 would be to high for that matter as it should only be a helping hand in the starting games.
  20. Lolurisk

    Lolurisk Member

    why would it matter? shared vision isn't very useful for vets other then seeing that some noob needs help (shared vision in recruit)
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