Pre-Approved: The Recon Rework

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Kith, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    So this was given the stamp of approval in Black Ops by THE BOSS. ETA on implementation is foggy, considering that there are four or five reworks to be finished and a lot of bugfixes/code optimizations in the queue before it. However, this doesn't mean you folks can't see it ahead of time and give some feedback, so here you go.

    Keep in mind, this has already been accepted. Unless a glaring problem arises or a large amount of people have a serious issue with this, no major changes will be made until after it's implemented.

    Recon Rework


    Flare – 20 energy, 5 second cooldown, 15 range
    Reveals and detects in an area of 6 for 10 seconds.
    KITH NOTE: Should use the "supply station" casting animation, where the Recon raises his hands. I'm using the "throw" animation for something else.

    Team Communication (Passive) (replaces "Adept Learner")
    The Recon gains shared experience regardless of where he is on the map.

    Battlefield Awareness (Passive)
    The Recon, being the experienced scout that he is, can evaluate the detection abilities of enemies, allowing him to see their detection radiuses.
    KITH NOTE: If this is already in place, I'd like it to be in place for only the Recon and not the Marksman.

    Scout Runner (Aesthetic)
    The Recon features a Hold Fire animation.
    KITH NOTE: Just bringin' it back.


    Surveillance Flare (Pseudopassive)
    The Recon tailors his flares to be more suited for surveillance of an area.

    Level 1: Increases Flare duration by 2 and reveal radius by 3
    Level 2: Increases Flare duration by 4 and reveal radius by 6
    Level 3: Increases Flare duration by 6 and reveal radius by 9
    KITH NOTE: Flare's tooltip should update to reflect the new values.

    Mass Designate - 30 second cooldown
    The Recon casts the current level of Laser Designate on all units within an area of 3.5. Does not designate items.
    KITH NOTE: This comes with Laser Designate, and is to help during horde situations and holdouts that feature large amounts of mobs. Should not be pushed into Marine Actions, as there is room on the main command card because I cut out Cloak. The "targeting hiearchy" is that it chooses the higher priority targets first.

    Because there's some apparent confusion: Mass Designate does not replace Laser Designate as a skill. Mass Designate is a "multicast" variant that is available if it needs to be used, but should not be because it has a longer cooldown and runs the risk of draining the Recon of energy.

    Reaper Drone Changes
    Leveling Damage Bonus reduced to 10% from 15%
    Inventory restricted to Ammo, Accessories (Occulars, ammo mods, ect), and Medical items
    Ultrasonic Pulse replaced by Hellfire Missile

    Hellfire Missile – 35 energy, 25 second cooldown
    Fires a missile that deals 300 damage in a radius of 3.5 and knocks back enemy units a distance of 1.5. Deals 20% damage to allies.


    Tier 1

    Escape - 40 Energy cost, 20 second cooldown
    The Recon builds up a charge of energy in his suit and then releases it, empowering himself and his teammates with a 20% movespeed bonus and cloaking himself.

    Level 1: Lasts for 5 seconds in a radius of 10
    Level 2: Lasts for 10 seconds in a radius of 12
    Level 3: Lasts for 15 seconds in a radius of 14

    Execute - 20 Energy cost
    The Recon is practiced in the art of attacking from concealed positions, gaining bonus damage when attacking enemies from behind and the ability to perform stealth executions with his Combat Knife. Execute does not instantly kill Massive units or Bosses, but does wound them badly. Killing a unit with Execute grants a 10% movespeed bonus for 30 seconds.

    Level 1: Execute has a 40 second cooldown
    Level 2: Execute has a 20 second cooldown
    Level 3: Execute has a 10 second cooldown

    Execute [E] (Ability Tooltip)
    The Recon stabs a unit with surgical precision, attempting to kill them with a single deadly strike. Massive and Heroic units take 400 damage and suffer 2 stacks of Open Wound. Deals 50% bonus damage if the unit is stabbed from behind.
    KITH NOTE: Execute has a range of 2 and a casting duration of 0.5 seconds. The casting range of Execute is something like 10, and requires the Recon to path to the unit before it's actually cast. It's intended to be there so that the Recon can handle Huggers, Spines, and other such things. Potential to take out an Agron if it's in his way and he can't get around it. Cannot be used on air units. The intended animation is the "throw" animation, with a potential red light or a similar tracer attached to the right hand while casting (so the Recon is shown as actually stabbing something, and not just bonking it on the head with his fist).

    It should be noted that Execute grants Backstab. Also, yes. This is KMS come back from the grave.

    Tier 2

    Stealth Matrix (Pseudopassive)
    The Recon enables the Stealth Matrix, an energy grid that allows him to bend light around himself to render objects invisible when power is routed through it. The Stealth Matrix cloaks allies for the duration of Escape, and once Escape ends, the Recon remains cloaked at the cost of draining energy but retains the movespeed bonus of Escape. Stealth Matrix activation/deactivation is located in Marine Actions.

    Level 1: The Recon remains cloaked as long as they do not use skills or attack. The Recon's personal cloak drains 1 energy per second.
    Level 2: The Recon remains cloaked as long as they do not attack. The Recon's personal cloak drains 0.7 energy per second.
    KITH NOTE: The Recon's personal cloak comes into effect AFTER the duration of Escape. Also, units will not auto-acquire targets while cloaked, so no worries about instantly breaking cloak once it's applied.

    The "activate/inactive" toggle of Stealth Matrix goes like this: While in its "active" state, it activates at the end of Escape. While in its "inactive" state, it does not activate at the end of Escape. If Stealth Matrix is active, putting the toggle in "inactive" will turn it off. Using the standard X>V of "marine skills", this will give the player a way to turn it off without forcing them to attack something or use a skill.

    Flash Flare (Pseudopassive)
    The Recon tailors his flares with additional flash powder to be more suited for partially blinding enemies with a bright light, slowing the movement speeds of the effected enemy units within the flare's radius.

    Level 1: Nonheroic enemies are slowed by 20% and their detection removed for 10 seconds.
    Level 2: Nonheroic enemies are slowed by 40%, Heroic enemies are slowed by 20%, and both have detection removed for 10 seconds.

    Tier 3

    The Recon sends an echoing charge of energy throughout his suit, refreshing his cooldowns and replenishing his energy reserves.

    Level 1: Resets the cooldown on all other Recon skills. Grants 30 shields and energy on activation.


    Decrease starting ammo in non-recruit, decrease it further in Nightmare mode. Increase ammo drops to compensate on equal levels for both. Apollo Sec is exempt from decreased starting ammo for obvious reasons.

    Move most hard-spawn weapons and equipment to the Armory. The only ones that should remain are:
    Flamethrower, M-45, and C2 at Military Base
    Pistol and GPRs at EC Spawn
    Crowbar at Airlock/Lab (Airlock Crowbar should be moved to a more noticeable place)
    Any currently placed Magazines
    Any currently placed Medical items

    Remove Comms Tower as a Speed requirement.

    Decrease Speed timer to an hour and ten minutes for non-recruit AC (potentially an hour). Normalize boss spawns to spawn at certain points on the map to cut down on needless waiting. Demeter can spawn north of fort, Perses can spawn nearby the rally points, ect.

    Possibly decrease Speed to 1:10 or 1:15 for Apollo Sec with normalized Boss spawns (Apop from Dome B, Athena from her holding pen, ect).

    Since Easy Company is already the least rewarding storyline, the Speed timer should remain at 1:25.

    Increase Agron detection radius from 3 to 5.

    Grant “Perfect” bonus to players who finish the match with Mineshaft, Comms Tower, and Chemical Leak completed. “Perfect” bonus should be similar (if not equal to) Speed, and “Perfect Speed” should be possible.
  2. Nixak

    Nixak Member

    Surveillance Flare and Mass Designate are the new T1 skills for Survcon right? Are their no changes to the t2 of Survcon?

    One one worry is about Battlefield Awareness. Will the radiuses be shown on the mini map or on the main game screen/ground. If on the mini map how will it avoid cluttering the map with little circles? If on the main game screen/ground, how will it avoid cluttering up vision with lots of little circles. There are several hold out parts in EC/AC/Sec and I'm worried that the Recon wont be able to see much of anything other then a billion detection radius circles.

    Edit: Unless Battlefield Awareness is only effects those that can detect cloaked units. Then my worry about Battlefield Awareness is unfounded.
  3. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Should only be detectors (agrons, infestors, bosses, etc)
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Surveillance Flare is the new Tier 1 for the Survcon. Single-target Laser Designate will still remain - Mass Designate will come with skilling Laser Designate and do the same thing that LD does, but in an area. It's really just an ease of access sort of thing for situations where there are large groups of enemies that no reasonable human being could LD quickly and efficiently.

    Battlefield Awareness only functions on Detectors, and the radii will only be shown "on the ground", I.E., not the minimap.
  5. JackBandit

    JackBandit Member

    This sounds awesome. I can't wait to try it out. I used to love playing recon until I got marksman haha. If you're not gonna make a class for the Ghost avatar of Kerrigan when HotS comes out you should totally make her the new recon avatar =x. Maybe I'm just bias because I love Sarah and ghosts in general.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I doubt that there will be any new classes, actually, unless it's the Squad Leader. And even then that's only a "maybe", so I'm not so sure how that's gonna go.

    Either way, once we get everything finished up and squared away, I'm pretty sure that the Kerrigan Ghost will be an alternate skin/model in the Credit Shop or something.
  7. Gattu

    Gattu Well-Known Member

    I would say to bring your Surveillance Flare back inline with the current flare.
    A 16 second lasting flare of 15 radius every 5 seconds is very op to me. Also making road flares useless.

    To explain, I always thought of the recon flare to be the quick ranged vision around the corner or over fog pillars to be used on the move with the team. While road flares were used for when there was a hold out at a single location lasting a long time.
    By making it longer lasting and longer cd it would make surv recon's role to provide quick vision on the move to be less present and during times like apollo sec lab hold out part to be alot less intense.

    For the environment changes I can't wait to get my computer working again to play and try a prefect run. It rewards higher skilled and brave teams, well at least it rewards the team for how skilled the recon is and how fast the team can shuffle through objectives.
  8. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    There are very few recons that ever skill level 3 flares, it like 99% go 1-3-2-2-1 (or hybrid at some point). So you should compare level 1s which is 10sec 6radius to 12sec 9radius, thats still better than the current one but not as drastic as you make it. Even though i dont know why it got improved.
  9. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    One of the ~issues~ that people had with the Survcon was that there was too much emphasis on spamming flares, so I made them last longer and reveal a wider area while giving the Recon an easier access to using Laser Designate effectively. Of course, both of these are buffs, but they're "in response" to the Drone getting nerfed as hard as it is and also the fact that the Survcon will no longer level as quickly as it does now.
  10. JackBandit

    JackBandit Member

    Do classes level at different rates?
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Technically the DPSes have higher leveling rates because they kill more things more often, but the baseline experience gain for all classes is the same (I.E., they all gain the same amount of experience for killing something). The Medic and Recon are the only exception to this, as they gain bonus shared experience (I.E., the experience shared when an ally kills something and you're nearby).
  12. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Here's the explanation. Note: these are not actual values, and as such, are only used for an example.

    You have a rifleman, a commando, and a recon, All within xp share radius of each other.

    The rifleman kills a ghoul, gets 10 experience, the commando gets 3, and the recon instead of 3, gets 4. Medic would get 4 as well. Any other class, an engineer, a marksman, etc. would get 3 xp.

    And also, I feel that Recon is fine where it is, here and now, and doesn't need this change; however, if it goes through, I will have no further objection save this.
  13. Shooz
    • Donator

    Shooz NOTD Staff: Killjoy

    Pre-approved means that it doesn't matter what you object to. This is what is going to happen an until then there are no more changes to the plan.
  14. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    You mean it won't change unless there is a massive hurricane of controversy over the changes. This will probably serve as feedback location as well when it is fully implemented.
  15. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    I completely disagree with this rework on every single level possible. Recon was by my accounts the most beautifully put together class out of all of them with the only thing that needed a change was the uselessness of mob cons t3 which instead is the only thing not getting changed (on the mob side).

    This of course is already approved though so i will not waste my time making my case against every single new skill (minus the hold fire animation, which is actually good and long deserved return).

    If there is something here that you can be swayed on please tell me and i will make a point against it. Otherwise i'll just keep quiet saved my breath.

    Regardless of my disbelief that you would actually put a skill as strong as escape as a t1, i will forecast you a problem your gonna be seeing with this. 1 escape surv cons will now be par for the course much like 1 sl nano meds used to be.
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Christ almighty, guys.

    Just because the rework has already been accepted does not mean that I am not looking for feedback.

    For instance, Lulz's post about Escape, which raises a very good point about hybrid or even just "put one point in". I mean, I don't think it's gonna be an issue, considering that the Survcon's leveling rate is going to be nerfed and Level 1 Escape is just not that good. It's not worth getting SS late, nor is it worth getting the Drone late. Will it be a more attractive option than filling out the tree? Maybe, I dunno. Up to the players. I wouldn't, personally, but that's just me.

    Either way, your opinion does count. Please point out issues that you may have, because it might be something that I missed. Even if your grievances are of a personal nature and feeling this is not necessary, I'm up to hearing them. Like I said, a change will be made if a significant majority of people have an issue with this. If everyone just grumbles silently, I can't do my damn job because I'm not getting feedback.
  17. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    What did you expect after such an opening post? You can easily read that as fuck you its approved so unless you find something that breaks the game i dont care.
  18. JAW

    JAW Well-Known Member

    In order to read it as "fuck you its approved so unless you find something that breaks the game i dont care", you would have to not read it at all.

    Something being already decided ≠ "fuck you... I don't care"

    Kith has made it apparent in multiple posts that he welcomes (constructive) feedback on just about anything. I say, to those of you who still won't give Kith the benefit of the doubt after all he's done, Something being already decided.
  19. Extifer
    • Warden
    • Donator

    Extifer Stiffy is what Lyanden calls me.

  20. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    Ill just go right down the list then.

    Innate flares i will simply disagree with because its an outright buff. Mob cons now get a old level 1 flare with no cost of talent point. While surv cons can grab a level 1 ld before flare which makes most of its significance in alpha when sometimes heph shows up and you may only have ld or flare, now you have both and he becomes no longer stealthed.

    Global xp share over adept learned - I disagree with the fact that this will make him level slower, i counter argue that he will level the same if not better while also leveling will be done while ramboing(perhaps more of a pub problem). Yes his xp share will not be as high however he gains xp share across the entire map, this is an obvious attempt to allow mob cons to scout yet remain able to level. To counter all xp share he is now missing he is now getting xp for kills that were just outside of the shareing range, and getting share from the engis and demos trailing the group grabbing kills at the end so they can level/stop buildups. Remains to be seen exactly how this will go but if i were a betting man i think this does nothing but allow rambos to gain undeserved xp in pubs and in real games the loss of adept learning will be completely nullified by team communication.

    The detector awareness - This is another ouright buff, but this one in a good players hands makes shit just way to easy. Mob cons only real scares before were infestors rolling around the map detecting them while the cloaked and unaware mob cons goes wtf i was cloaked, followed by ah gosh darn festor. Now recons of all sort if im getting how this will go correctly will be able to see infestors from far away (im picturing this kinda like a heart beat sensor with the moving white circle, a different explanation might change this drastically). Not only will this make infestor hunting 100x times easier because they know when festors are even close, but it also takes the only element that brings danger away from the mob con. Allowing skilled player to litterally role around the map forever without ever being in danger.

    Flares - Another outright buff, and a pretty undeserved one from a skill that is already pretty damn good, but i think what dust said about making road flares obselete is pretty damn true, not much else to say about this one.

    Mass Designate - This to me seems to go against the whole lore of laser designation, In my head ld was always something to target specific enemies such as banelings in a blind train, beastlings in a mob of agrons, Hulks during ivax wave in apollo, stealth units such as stealthed titans/blackops/burrowed fests. The minor armor removements of ld were always secondary to the pointing out and being a spotter of high value targets for your mates. Mass designate seems like to break that whole thing by saying here, have increased dps on this whole horde instead of picking out the targets you should be focus firing. Also the energy concerns that come with this. Would it be a set value? or simply the same price of ld for every unit? The latter could cause some problems from recons who don't know any better mass lding a horde thinking there doing the right thing but now completely out of energy and cant flare or drop supply stations. Sure it would be one of those make the mistake once and it wont happen again things but i don't think adding something like that adds any value to the game.

    Reaper changes - All in all the major change here is that reaper wont be able to carry guns and maybe mods. Seems like another reason for teams to rely less on reaper and think about bringing in a mob con, i can respect that but i disagree with it. I think this will do nothing but increase the hybrid cons playability, It will be an unintended consequence but nevertheless i don't think its a great move unless the game plans on making a move to were hybrid classes are viable in notd 2. Hellfire missile over pulse - 95% of the notd population dont use pulse on a regular basis anyways and probably will use the missile more than they did pulse, Thats fine and all while i disagree with a recon having a missile its not a strong enough disagreement (or missile) to really bitch about.

    Mob Side

    Escape t1 - If you don't think escape is that strong then i don't know how to convince you, theres not much i can say. A team cloak as the first skill of the game, gives 5 seconds of un contested dps as there is not a single first wave in any campaign with detectors. And thats just one point if you have recon cp and get 2 points well thats just increased further. Escape has always been regarded as the best skill on the mob recon side and is now the first skill in the game. Saying you would complete the surv recon tree before going to escape is downright stupidity or stubborness. While I will also argue a completely seperate point for some of the better notd teams out there. They now have best of both worlds recons. A recon that can scout on his own with cloak yet also be on the surv side to supply the team. The Hybrid recon will truelly become a big thing. Allthough you may only need 1-2 points in escape to do this effectively ill just say start all three in there for arguments sake. So three points in escape there is absolutely no reason you cant scout the entire map without a problem, especially since you can see detection ranges. a hybrid con with just 3 points in escape can do mobs job at argueably a more effective job at it too. Case and point civs. Not only do you have a group cloak to save the civs and yourself but you have flares that last much longer great for seeing spawn locations, and you have heartbeat sensor that shows exactly were they spawn. There is no reason a surv con cant do an even better job than mob on civs, icluding alpha also. Can now cloak the group protecting them from the hulks and also can with hbs can see the roaches/mutas coming from over the cliffs as he advances to the ship, thus can flare and thwart ambushes or just cloak and ignore them all together. If you truly don't think escape is that strong of a skill there is nothing i can do to change your mind. This is all great and you all but you bring up the valid point of is ss worth waiting for and i will say yes completely. It will cost you 3 points (in this argument though i think i would prolly just take it to level 2) which means you would be hitting ss at level 8 and 9. Looking at the storylines to see about were we are at 8-9. Ec Nm you are likely around eggs at erebos one should easily be 8 before eros 1 starts and there is no real spot before hand in EC were an ss is needed besides maybe a fs engi spamming plasmas or somebody eating a larva bomb from an infestor in a navy cross game. Engies will just have to learn to conserve and not waste there bombs, while venom bombs will become completely extict becasue you can use ESCAPE before the festor dies so that when it does its larva cant find anybody.

    Alfa nm - You should be at the end of demeter or by the very least you will have it before cronus which means your team can still roll into cronus completely supplied. The difference here is that an earlier ss can be helpful during the first titan wave for arty fos/ engis/ mandos/ and mms. However as long as they have some expierence and know how to save energy for when they need it its an easy trade off. As now the team can scout one side of the map while the ss con scouts the other which gives them much greater chance of finding important weapons and armor and stills keeps the minis intact as only one is away from the main group.

    Apollo nm - This is the storyline were no adept learning will hurt the most, less share from agron/festor wave and from initial armory wave, however you will get greater benefits from team communication here as your team begins split and you will still recieve share from the other team not to mention from any kills made scouting before the armory wave. In the end you should still have your ss by about nazara time which will still allow you to drop one before naz emps etc. You will be sacrificing ss by demeter but the cost is easily covered as you have now become a great class for starting early objectives and still making it back to the team safe and sound.

    All in all i believe the having of escape early completely outweighs having supply station a little bit earlier as the only spot in any storyline were your missing ss at a time were ss is truly helpful is alfa, and even then that can be compensated with better gear finds and weapons. The big loss your taking here is ammo which is also nullified by the fact that your able to scout larger areas of the map.

    Maybe we just disagree on the usefullness of escape but i think by no means a cloak, much less a team cloak should be available so early.

    Execution - Sure s flashy fun skill that will be enjoyed in pubs around the world but i question its actual usefullness. Its kms returning in a shittier version. If im picturing this correctly it will work like kms, though the other image i have of it is it must be used within knifing range. If its like kms than whats it supposed to do, a single target designation with a massive cd that does meh damage at best (400 or 600 if getting backstab). lets assume you can get backstab and hit the 600, in a a pretty average nm game (around 2100-2200 sr) your mearly doing a third damage to agrons, just scratching infestors, and possibly not even killing slashers, surely not if not hitting the backstab. Also the granting 10% ms if killed seems like just a tack on, and doesnt add anything to the actual gameplay. If its the knife version and you got all up and close the only units you would need the ms buff for would be the detectors that you surely diddnt kill with the skill itself because its not enough damage to kill any detectors. Thus it would make more sense to give the 10% if you didnt hit a kill as you did good damage and got away. The giving it as a bonus for a kill just makes no sense to me. If its like the old kms version well your not likely moving while using the skill so it doesnt do anything either. Seems like a complete trap skill to me only seriously used in pubs while your messing around having fun and no actual use in gameplay. This also replaces perhaps one of my favorite skill in the game altogether in counter measures so i hate it even more.

    New cloak - major difference here seems to be the shooting/sprinting disables cloak. My question with that is do the activation costs remain? if so this adds a don't shoot while cloaked aspect to the game that i'm not so sure is a bad thing. However if this affects cloak then there is absolutely no reason it shouldn't effect escape. its a mere inconsitency that bugs me.

    Flare thing - A non passive version of foresight that will surely cause massive cheez. Think about this instance, using escape (entire team cloaked) then blinding Erebos with flare so he cant detect for 10 seconds, In that ten seconds a mando can be sitting in his face and completely slaughter erebos by himself (surg/adren flamer) with absolutely no risk to himself. Sure this could be done before with correct use of taunts and timing but it required skill from the mando (time correctly and not steal agro from tank) the tank (time your taunts correctly to not lose agro) and the medic who had to worry about the tank, the mando, and whomever else wanted to get upclose in personal with the boss. Now its just 2 skills from the recon and the mando knowing how to reload and the boss is dead before it can even detect anybody. Also this can said for absolutely any boss fight. I disagree with any detection removing skill from heriocs for sure and probably in general all togther as this also removes and harm from burrowing agrons at comms. Not to mention a castable version of the old foresight would be just to stong anyways.

    All in all what i see is a complete buff to surv con with the only nerf being arguably the reaper and its almost not even a nerf at all. Then I also see a mobcon thats your ( and by your i don't mean kith directly, i mean the whole community) trying to get more involved in the game but this just isn't the answer. Then i also see a hyrbid con that very well could make mob con more of an endangered species than he currently is.

    I also hate when people completely rag on an idea without having one of there own, however i in no way shape or form saw this coming (as a complete rework, i thought it would just be refresher which is oddly left out of the rework) so i have nothing at this time to counter suggest. Perhaps i will brainstorm and get back to this in a few days.

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