Pathfinder Feedback

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Ability, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    The class will go live on Sec Team storyline by mid-Feb once most major issues are resolved. You can beta test it on Survival now.
  2. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Trickshot (T1 passive) overrides weapon mods just like H-3 Igniter
    Pathfinder cannot use waypoints. Picking up an item or completing an action will cancel the next command in line.
    Shoot to Main toggle has no indicator showing when it is active/inactive
    Bounce from Trick Shot deals pure 20 damage (ignores all armor) instead of actual damage, but does apply debuffs like AP/HE
  3. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    Was unit pathing ever fixed?
  4. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Yeah I'd like to point our his jumps don't hurt air units. This point was made specifically clear by Kithrixx. Because you can't hit air the right tree is effectively useless when it comes to fighting air units.
    The other issue is Assault Jumps cloaks the pathfinder. That's pretty lazy, and doesn't even do what the original intent of the evasion bonus was. This negates any would be survivability bonuses when using assault jumps on bosses, because they detect. Don't tell me evasion chances are "too hard to do" either, the Recon has had evasion chances linked to his Reflexes for close to two years.
  5. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    For some reason, I can't tell if his Ultimate, No Quarter hits air either, even after landing it on Eil in Survival.

    I think Assault Jump should at the very least apply the DoT damage & Stun to aerial units, unless Assault Jump purposely doesn't affect air units as a balance mechanic (Hate jumping into them).
  6. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Basically what Nite said. I find the cloak to be lazy and against the intended spirit of the Assault Jumps. They are basically either completely risk free (No detection), or nigh completely useless (Bosses and heavy detection enviroments).

    When the original concept was "high risk, high reward" this turns it either into "No risk, high rewards" or "high risk, low rewards" (Face it, 450 damage on a boss is not a high reward).

    Considering that Apollo Security Team lacks taunts (Once Demo is removed as planned), and generally bosses can't be tanked the Assault Jumps (And that tree) becomes pretty much nigh useless during that situation.
  7. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    The stun is the only reason its possible to use without death, for the most part.
  8. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Least this time I learned? *shrug* Last time I posted something about easy survival farming cheese I ended up with a sizable chunk of the community pissed at me. Hopefully squirreled away here it'll reduce the backlash. xP

    Survival Mode Cheese still lives with the Pathfinder. Apparently you fixed assault jump but No Quarter still goes anywhere? Also a part where I saw a Pathfinder (Wave 30) who just seemed to fly up the wall from Central Plaza into that corner between Lab and the Corridor outside lab and right up into Apollo.

    Replay attached for review/study.

    [attachment=232]
  9. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    No Quarter does indeed allow for Terrain Level Transversing. However, the issue is, without it, it becomes very impractical to use the skill against an enemy, esp. a boss.

    However, with it, we do have the issue you present.

    By making it into Assault Jump esq. the Problem of practicality against an enemy occurs. By being forced to be on the same level as the targeted location, it becomes even harder to aim and hit the Perfect Hit site.

    In Surv, Just assault jumping the Eggs gives Pathy a sizable amount of experience; enough to have the Ult by Eil, but then again, this goes for any class, esp. Classes with AoE / A Shotgun.
  10. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I find that there ought to be some cooldown between Assault Jumps besides the limit of 5 jumps.
    Right now people stack 5 jumps on the same/close location to kill whatever was there in a second.

    Shoot to Main's energy cost is also a bit too high. Reducing it by 1 energy per shot would make it worthwhile. Alternatively/additionally make Trick Shot bounces cost 1 energy or so.
    Pathfinder left tree without StM is basically fast five spam and still enough energy to have consistent high DPS (as Fast Fice is the only other talent costing energy)
  11. Kage

    Kage Member

    No Quarter,in theory,sounds too much like a no-FF nuke.I have not seen the full power of it as I dont see the Right Tree in action.While I am Ok with the damage,I would much rather have it stun or slow allies that are hit.

    Also,the evasion rate of Assault Jump is rather high considering that you have a skill to stun nearby units at Tier 2.
    The durations of both effects also overlap one another.Perhaps,Coming in Hot could increase the evasion duration by 1/2seconds to prevent the overlap.
  12. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    No Quarter is meant to do massive AoE damage that falls off pretty fast as you get farther away from it. The catch of No Quarter is that if you MISS landing on an enemy, you stand a reasonable chance of fast moving/heavy hitting enemies (agrons/ghouls) racing in and dismantling you. Also it is balanced by its LONG cooldown (1 min IIRC, nukes can be spammed far easier). The invincibility was added I think to prevent you from No Quarter then getting NM charge rushed and getting ripped up instantly.

    TL;DR Its a situational close in massive dmg aoe, Nuke is cheaper, shorter cooldown with way more damage (its damage doesnt fall off as much as No Quarter does), larger AoE and MUCH larger range, balenced by its TKing possiblity. Also nuke can be boosted far more then No Quarter.
  13. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I see StM cost has been reduced from 2.5-1.5 as suggested - I'm glad about that.

    Still, I feel that the bounces from Trick Shot should maybe cost energy too as they are generally more useful than StM except against a lone large enemy or boss. In fact, have Trick Shot still confer a passive bonus to the pistol, but have bounces on toggle so you choose whether to bounce, main or neither.
    Pathfinder has a number of free slots on the card anyhow.

    Say 1 energy per bounce shot.
  14. Jercy

    Jercy Well-Known Member

    The only change that needs to be made to assault jump is the one that makes it affect air. Adding a cooldown between jumps would just make the right tree more unuseful.
  15. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    What if fast five also disabled trick shot? Instead of aiming to bounce his shots he's trying to shoot as fast as possible.
  16. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    If the damn map's pathing was fixed, we wouldn't need to worry about assault jumps cheeses. All those obscure ledges and hang ups should be completely unpathable terrain. Anything other than fixing the root problem is a waste of energy.
  17. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    New Terrain seems to keep coming up as a fix to problems. Pathing issues, cheese spots, god forsaken lag zones...

    I know it's been brought up a lot. Just sayin'.
  18. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Not "new terrain" fixing the existing terrain.

    There are tools without the editor to set what areas can and cannot be reached. Ie, it would be easy to set the canyons so that Mobile Infanty could not drop down there. Likewise, ledges could be set as non pathing regions, so enemies cannot spawn stuck on ledges they cannot escape from.

    Peera and I had to scour his map for every little nook and cranny, and cleansed all such spots. It took only an afternoon, it would not take long here either.
  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I posted what I thought needed to be changed almost a month ago, along with reasoning for these changes.

    I want ALL of the Pathfinder's durability to lie in his shields. Yes, the Medic is capable of throwing Nano Shield on him to "heal" him instantly, but I feel I need to bring up the following:

    A: Nano Shield is a Tier 2 ability.
    B: Nano Shield is literally the only ability that is capable of healing the Pathfinder's shields out of Random and Survival.
    C: Outside of the Medic's Nano Shield and the Engineer's Repair, the Pathfinder must regenerate his shields. He cannot consume items to make them heal faster, he must sit and wait for them to restore. The rest of the classes have the wonderful luxury of having hitpoints in the triple digits, which means they can survive a couple rough hits while stuffing their faces with medkits and bandages. Once his shields are gone, there's a very good chance that he's going to die horribly. This leaves less room for mistakes, and considering the damage/disable/mobility potential of the right tree, that's the way it needs to be.

    The jump animation/arcs that I showed you from Hero Attack (specifically, the Brutalisk's and the Nydus Worm's) need to be implemented. The travel time between jumps needs to be factored in, along with the non-targeting. As it stands, the delay at the start of the jump where the Pathfinder is simply vulnerable has gotten several players killed when they should have survived.

    Improved Coolant lines needs to reduce the minimum range of Assault Jump. Currently it does not, which can lead to some serious positioning problems.

    Assault Jump also needs a casting reticle. I know it's a question of skill in figuring out the exact radius of the jump's effect, but the player is already throwing themselves at the enemy as a grenade. I want to know exactly what I'm going to hit when I land. In addition to this, it needs to be cast-able into the fog of war. Getting blinded when you're being pursued by enemies sucks.

    Finally, I want to discuss the probability of Assault Jump killing Immortals on a permanent basis, or having a higher chance to do so than normal skills. Considering the nature of the ability, I think it should, but it's already fairly powerful, so I want to see what everyone else thinks.
  20. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention:

    We need to do something about Full Throttle. As it stands, it's Shadowstep with a knockback aura and no speed buff for teammates, and that's no good. Either it needs to be as designed (a no damage Charge) or we need to re-evaluate it. Honestly, I'm a fan of the speed boost, and wouldn't object to Full Throttle changing to something like this:

    Full Throttle replaces/upgrades Sprint.
    Level 1 - 70% movement speed increase, 5 energy cost increase
    Level 2 - 105% movement speed increase, 10 energy cost increase
    Level 3 - 140% movement speed increase, 15 energy cost increase

    I want to keep it as a movement skill, because players need to have something dedicated to getting out. Assault Jump's primary use is offensive, and I want to keep it that way. I don't want players getting screwed because they used their last jump and they've got 30/22.5/15 seconds before they get another one. The argument could be made that "they need to be more careful", but the issue with that is that the players are already essentially throwing themselves as grenades into the midst of enemies and putting themselves at great personal risk in doing so. Assault Jump isn't Killing Me Softly where the player is teleported back to safety at the end of the skill - there needs to be something that allows them to get around that they're being a combat caster with one of the most fragile classes in the game.

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