Original NOTD 2 Weapons Thread

Discussion in 'Canceled Content' started by Kith, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    First post updated:

    • Added Plasma Rifle, Minigun, Slug Shotgun, Tesla Gun, Incinerator, Dart Rifle, Chemical Sprayer, Microwave Gun, and Pocket Rocket
    • Formatting changed from "shots per magazine" to "round consumption" because I realized that 30 round magazines aren't going to be the norm for a lot of people.
    • Removed sound effect information because it doesn't really need to be there anymore. Also because I can just get Peer hopped up on Diablo III and Command & Conquer and throw him at the problem to receive sound effects. Also visual effects.

    You got your wish after all.
  2. RoboMonkey

    RoboMonkey Well-Known Member

    *Gives kith massive hug and titanic sloppy kiss on forehead that leaves a suction mark*

    ->U ARE ONE OF THE BEST GAME DEVS EVER!!<-
    and those who say other wise can go suck on fish...
  3. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    That Minigun speed boost is not at all friendly (to enemies)

    I thought we had this figured out with Commando's Adrenaline.

    1.15 ^ 15 is roughly 8.137

    .5 / 8.137 is roughly 0.061

    The number your looking for is around 11.3% increased attack speed stacking 15 times.

    .5 / (1.113^15) is approximately 0.10036

    Use this to find the desired attack speed:

    X = (Base Attack Speed / Final Attack Speed) ^ (1 / Number of Stacks) - 1

    where X is the desired increased attack speed (Multiply by 100 to get a percentage).

    Base Attack Speed, Final Attack Speed and Number of Stacks are numbers you know / determined.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Nope! Pretty crap for running around, though.

    Probably! I wasn't there for it, though.
  5. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Hello my smiling friends. Changes that will be made when I am less busy:

    • MMG is losing its setup ability. Its base stats will be receiving adjustments along the lines of increasing its damage per shot and reducing its attack speed. At the end of the day it will have comparable or slightly better DPS than the Assault Rifle on a per-magazine basis, but the Assault Rifle will be much lighter, have a faster reload speed, and have access to Burst Fire.
    • The AM Rifle is also losing its setup ability. Its damage will be lowered and its attack speed increased to compensate. I will also probably widen its penetration path and increase its weight.
    • I am going to nerf the SMG by tuning it to 10 +10 vs Light. It will retain its insane performance against trash mobs, but will be pretty much useless against anything tougher than that.
    The setup stuff is partially being done for balance/flow reasons, but also because we need the ability space for Sidearms. The SMG, on the other hand, is getting nerfed because it smells bad.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Full changelog:
    Medium Machine Gun's damage has been increased to 18, but lost its bonus damage vs. Massive.
    Medium Machine Gun's attack speed has been reduced to 0.4.
    Medium Machine Gun has lost its setup ability.
    Minigun has received similar changes to that of the Medium Machine Gun.
    Anti-Materiel Rifle's damage has been reduced to 180.
    Anti-Materiel Rifle's attack speed has been increased to 3.
    Anti-Materiel Rifle's range has been increased to 25.
    Anti-Materiel Rifle's weight has been increased to 35.
    Anti-Materiel Rifle's splash width has been increased to 0.25.
    Anti-Materiel Rifle has lost its setup ability.
    Sub Machine Gun's damage has been changed to 10, +10 vs Light.
    Chemical Sprayer's damage has been changed to 10, +10 vs Biological.
  7. Commlink
    • Development Team
    • Modeler

    Commlink Programmer/Asset Designer

    ouch loss of setup. New weapons?, new models needed? got no info on this send me a text dock or better uyet a zip with images and i#ll produce some.
  8. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    So are you buffing Assault t3 now? or we are back to
    //Edit:
    It's in relation to no more 'setup' ability of guns forgot to bold
  9. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    HMG still has the setup animation, so it's definitely not going to waste. The new weapons will need new models, but they're not important right now - they're "way down the line" sort of stuff, once we have other systems like the shop and mercenary encounters in place.

    Lockdown will remain as it is. While it's technically a nerf because the MMG and the AM Rifle no longer have setup/teardown states and therefore Lockdown is no longer "as special", the HMG will retain its setup/teardown and if you can get your hands on one, the Assault will remain the de-facto HMG class because he can handle it better than anyone else.
  10. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I have decided that, while the current implementation of Shotguns is neat in theory, it's not that great in reality. It's also super glitchy and honestly I'd rather go for something more simple that won't take an excessive amount of time to tweak into something that doesn't set my teeth on edge.

    So here are new ones.

    Pump Shotgun
    Round consumption: 2
    Damage: 35
    Armor Reduction: 1.5
    Attack Speed: 1.15
    Splash: Special
    Range: 12
    Reload time: 3
    Equip time: 2.5
    Weight: 10
    Critical Damage: 250%

    Special: Scattershot
    The Shotgun gains more damage the closer the target is and gains more splash radius the further away the target is.


    Automatic Shotgun
    Round consumption: 2
    Damage: 25
    Armor Reduction: 1.5
    Attack Speed: 0.6
    Splash: Special
    Range: 8
    Reload time: 3
    Equip time: 2.5
    Weight: 15
    Critical Damage: 250%

    Special: Scattershot
    The Shotgun gains more damage the closer the target is and gains more splash radius the further away the target is.


    Shotgun Damage/Splash Radius Clarification
    Splash Damage applies to the main target, causing it to be hit "twice" by an attack - the initial listed damage of the weapon and the appropriate splash damage template listed below. Splash Damage has 1.5 damage reduced per 1 point of armor, similar to that of the base damage of the Shotgun weapons.

    50 damage in a 0.1 radius at range 0 to 1.9
    40 damage in a 0.35 radius at range 2 to 2.9
    30 damage in a 0.65 radius at range 3 to 3.9
    25 damage in a 1.0 radius at range 4 to 4.9
    25 damage in a 1.25 radius at range 5 to 5.9
    20 damage in a 1.5 radius at range 6 to 6.9
    20 damage in a 1.75 radius at range 7 to 7.9
    15 damage in a 2.0 radius at range 8 to 8.9
    15 damage in a 2.25 radius at range 9 to 9.9
    10 damage in a 2.5 radius at range 10 to 10.9
    10 damage in a 2.75 radius at range 11 to 11.9
    5 damage in a 3 radius at range 12+
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
  11. Stereo
    • Development Team

    Stereo Paper Boy

    Would the damage values scale up with damage buffs? (Surg, Focus Fire, etc.)
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yes.
  13. squish

    squish Well-Known Member


    Okay. So, not to burst your bubble early on here, but;

    1: Is making a fuckin' aoe splat like this even possible in the editor in the first place? You've got different multipliers, different radials, and different ranges coming into play. The 590A5 in NotD was designed like it is in the editor because it's simple and not much of a resource/time hog to debug.

    Edit: Requesting that @ArcanePariah chip in here with his extensive knowledge of the editor for point #1

    2: If I understand the current issue of the 590A5 being seen as overpowered, is because it essentially double taps the direct target. (Target, and AoE effect). This may lead to the shotgun nuking whatever you explicitly target with it. To the order of 300 damage per shot. *Ouch.*

    3: This is going to be a REALLY resource heavy design issue with multiple characters having access to rapid fire (See: OpComm and SMM), should probably take that into account, in addition to balance issues that may arise. I've personally seen and felt the effect of the "simple" NotD1 SG causing slight drops and dips in FPS as the engine calculates in horde situations what takes what damage.
  14. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I'm pretty sure it is, yeah. Arcane has told me as much. If it's not, then I'll come up with something else.

    The NOTD shotgun is overpowered as hell not necessarily because of the double tap, but because of all of the other factors. The splash being full size and full damage at all ranges does not help matters, because you basically become untouchable after a certain amount of DPS because everything around you dies. Also of concern is the stun chance and the bonus damage vs. Massive, of which there are many prevalent enemies that are tagged as Massive in NOTD. NOTD 2's shotgun will not have permanent unreal splash, no abusable damage modifiers, and no stun chance.

    All in all, I don't mind the fact that the damage can get pretty up there - after all, the Flamethrower is capable of dealing roughly the same amount of damage while retaining its linear splash, completely piercing armor, and taking less ammo per shot.

    NOTD is not well optimized and it would not surprise me at all if the FPS drops had to do with how the Shotgun is coded and possibly also the stun chance added to it.
  15. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Word.

    As a counterpoint, two classes reach "untouchable" for any player that can reload properly.
    The rest become "untouchable" with any weapon, any class, because they know how to kite, not because of a weapon stunning or not, or obliterating everything, or not. :)
    'Kay, but it literally takes one checkbox being ticked (afaik), to make the damage go from "pretty up there" to "HOLY SHIT, I CLICKED ON IT AND IT WENT BOOM AND DIED!!!!!11!".
    That, and shitty end user hardware, poor design by Blizzard (Granted, 4core wasn't as common then, but hey), and some other shit. But yeah, mostly.
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    In which case that requires micro and skill, which I'm fine with. A player being untouchable because they're good doesn't bother me. A player being untouchable because everything that comes within arm's reach dying to the absurd DPS without the player in question even having to aim is not something I'm fine with.

    I don't know what you're referencing.
  17. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    At some point there was a thread that referenced how to make weapons exclude targets from the aoe splat, and it was literally just a checkbox.
  18. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Oh, yeah. This time it's intentional and balanced for, so I'm not really worried about it.
  19. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    On the technical side, weapons can have many aoes, each searching a given radius and angle relative to the launch and target locations. You can have the searches be in a direction from launch to target, but centered at target. So this weapon will directly hit the target, but then do the searches as specified. To achieve the splashes indicated here, I'll simply have to covert the radius to the correct angle (pretty straightforward math).
  20. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Word. Hopefully it doesn't prove to be too complicated. Thanks for chipping in.

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