Original NOTD 2 Weapons Thread

Discussion in 'Canceled Content' started by Kith, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Nope. It's fine as it is.

    Also nope.

    Why wouldn't it? Accuracy makes things better in terms of weapon damage but you can't get around the fact that you're still shooting a rifle cartridge and more heavily armored enemies are going to be able to shrug it off.
  2. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Because its penetration is less than that of the Assault Rifle (I assume that uses Rifle cartridges as well) and is the same as the pistol (which I doubt uses Rifle cartridges).
  3. Grevious

    Grevious Member

    Love the concepts.

    so from my understanding the Assault rifle = GPR/M5/UA420 rolled into one gun?

    the question I have is will buffs and debuffs remain the same? (example being the M45`s -24 dmg to targets like agrons or the HMG`s +27 dmg to Seth {assuming my math is right})
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    It does use the same cartridge size as the standard assault rifle, yes. However, the majority of the Marksman Rifle's damage is attributed to its accuracy, and like I said - no matter how accurate you get, you're still firing a bullet. It has a higher armor reduction because its base damage is so much higher.


    No. The new bonuses are plainly listed.
  5. Grevious

    Grevious Member

    oops haha my bad.....skimming vs reading ftw! xD
  6. Bari
    • Donator

    Bari New Member

    What is the point of Burst Fire for the Assault Rifle? As I understand it, it does the same exact DPS as automatic mode, with the drawback of wasting one or two extra bullets in case the target dies on the first or second bullet.

    edit: nevermind this one, I didn't think about the increased mobility that comes with having to fire once every 0.9 instead of every 0.3

    Also how does the flamethrower "x12" work to reflect its range-based description? Is it completely linear or something different? i.e. if a target is at 4.5 range it only takes 10x1 damage, instead if it's in melee range it takes the whole 10x12. Do other multipliers kick in at 0.375, 0.75, 1.125 and so on, or is there a longer minimum range before the reduction starts to kick in? Or are the different ranges calculated with a non-linear progress?

    And last thing, why can't the HMG be unequipped while deployed? I imagine the concept behind the HMG is something like this
    so assuming a marine is operating it, why can't said marine just "leave it there" and pull out another weapon?
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
  7. There is also the fact that you can fire 3 at once to kill a target in one shot instead of waiting for 3 shots, this can happen if you are moving and encounter a lone zombie
    rest will have to wait for kith
  8. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Ye olde Burst Fire is the king of stutter stepping. Additionally, there's very rarely (if ever) going to be a situation where there's just one zombie present - if you're shooting at something, you're probably going to be dealing damage to multiple enemies via splash damage. I was debating making Burst Fire remove the splash damage and increase base damage, but I'm not so sure that's a good plan. It is a mystery. I may change it later.

    Completely linear. The closer the unit is to the source (see: the player using the flamethrower), the more damage the unit takes.

    Balance reasons. The HMG, unless you haven't noticed, has WAY higher DPS than just about any other gun in the game. The way I chose to balance this was to... well, make it clunky.
  9. bonx0110
    • Donator

    bonx0110 TheRealXyzzy

    soo much guns to pick to be my fave... i dont know what to pick lets go with plasma cannon xD
  10. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    Just noticed that you nerfed the Marksman Rifle's weapon speed to 1.6 versus the 1.4 in NOTD. It's a good design choice. The slight damage versus speed change makes it more useful in higher difficulties and makes it less killstealy in recruit.
  11. Matthies7
    • Donator

    Matthies7 Grand Master Guardian

    I have one, and only one thing to say. The final version of the AMR should be called something akin to the current king and god of all sniper and anti-material rifles, the Denel Mechem NTW-20. It fires 20mm cannon shells. 20 MILLIMETER CANNON SHELLS.
  12. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    • Like Like x 1
  13. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yo dogg, I heard you liked guns.

    First post updated with noise values for all weapons now that we're getting to work on implementing the spawn system.
  14. nex_

    nex_ Member

    Show Spoiler

    After reenjoying the gameplay of that clone of am, I still think that : (assumption)

    1) people likes to found "better" weapon / different variant (ias scope) thats why u got rifle/mm/mg/etc.

    2) "better" weapon drop on higher difficulty is a way to mitigate "wall" effect

    3) like stated by arcane pariah, old weapon mod was messy, dont know if new will, but it is dangerous for the balance of the game to have such possibilities without limits.

    4) class should have "designed for" weapon, the fact you couldn’t hold as rifle the sg on notd-am, was somehow frustrating/unrealistic, but offers a big BALANCE advantage.
    Add = it is possible to wield all weapon, but the skill of the class made some (a limited number of weapon : ex barret) weapon way more effective, maybe varying along situation, you can have it but people made better use of this.

    When I look at the current notd, I got the feeling that the usage is : (personnal statement)

    mm for range/safety class
    ft/he or sg for dps one
    gauss for recruit
    laser for game-end.
    l3 for whoring. stinger for some fun/specific dps class.

    It isn’t really varied (yes I know m5 etc, but they are so specific on armoured type that what u want in your inventory is more general use (like the category I set on statement).

    Brings me to the point, which I hadn’t when I decided to write this, that the armoured/light/bio/psy system is not a good one. Look at it, it leads to isolate foes in categories, and get 1 or 2 weapon for categorie, and count on the team for the rest. That’s normal, but not too many. Light (=bio) / armoured +maybe an other one seems fine.

    So what’s the point with all this?

    Guns glorious gun are a very important part of the game mechanics, and the system has to be easy to learn hard to master. Well it’s obviously not hard to learn, and to masterize, it lead to the range/reload/ias/dmg more than the damage type. I mean ok for damage type, like any of the previously quoted categories. They matter for mastery.

    So if we get this theoretical idea, and try to apply :

    Then we should have basic weapon allowing versatility, and allowing to be more familiar with the classic mechanics concept :
    - ias
    - dmg
    - range
    - reload time
    - splash like effect
    - armor type bonus/malus effect
    + weight but I don’t think its a requirement to be familiar with

    For example with value from 1 to 5 which should represents the gauss norm.

    The assault rifle, very basic, no big thing, but not flaws, the speed makes it polyvalent
    Ø medium dmg 2,5 / medium range 3 / pretty high speed 3or3,5 / little splash 1, medium reload 2,5.

    The handgun, allowing some kite fun, is less powerfull against most enemy, but still keep power against light one, one of the big advantage very low reload time
    Ø low dmg 1,5/ short range 1,75/ high speed 5/ no splash 0/ high reload 4/ +2 vs light armor

    The shotgun has a unique and enought powerfull splash attack, compensed by his short range, and medium speed, allowing kiteplay, shouldn’t shoot air (imo)
    Ø mediumhigh dmg 3 / short range 1,5 / medium speed 2/ big splash 3,5, medium reload 2,5

    The marksmanrifle is the distance weapon, basically compensed with low speed.
    Ø high dmg 4, long range 5/ pretty low speed 1/ little splash 1 / medium reload 3

    The firethrower is not for me an easy weapon people should be able to start with I would add a unique unleash firepower/reload system on it, and it is also hard to balance (weapon mod), basically its a unique splash sg like with armor bonus
    Ø medhigh dmg 2 / short range 1,5 / medium speed 3 / aoe splash 2,5 / +1,5 vs bio
    Ø reload special : Fuel cap which u can refill to max in lower action time, and which means a burst fire as long as u still got fuel. Manual reload 4,5

    We can imagine light & heavy mg with big ranged firepower at the cost of high reload/high ammo use.
    Ø Light : medium dmg 3 / highmed range 3,5 / high speed 4,5 / little splash 1 / reload 4,5

    Ø Heavy : med dmg 3 / highmed range 3,5 / highest speed 5 / splash 2 / +2 vs armoured
    Reload special like ft, u can fill it to a cap with lower time, but if its empty manual 5,5 (not heavy for nothing).

    Intermediate between rifle / mm (special force)
    Ø Dmg 3 / range 4 / ias 2 / little splash 2 / +1 dmg vs light target / reload 3 (less clip size)

    And futurist thing like

    Stargate Laser (which is still balanced).
    Ø Dmg 4,5, range 4, ias 2 / splash 2 / reload 3,5

    But then you can desire omagad nukzor thing
    > And they could be more powerfull, but high difficulty available.

    And to balance this, you add more powerfull ammo modifier FOR basic weapon in high difficulty theme which don’t stack with nukzor thing

    All of this implies ofc the removal of some skill that totally unbalance weapon little balance, but also KEEP some skill that make a weapon more easily usable (not more powerfull) which means reload / range / and to somepoint splash effect and bonus.

    So weapon fit with class and skill fit with weapon ; the game is more balanced and class offers the choices. There is no reason a medic should be better than a FT with a ft, or an assault with a mm/barret than a mm.

    For ex

    - Rifle man (basic weapon, with good ias) : a high crit multiplier with a low crit chance is balanced, dont proc often for mass swarm rape, and proc often to have a chance against little boss, if u don’t have splosive.

    - For sg user : a good ias skill is not overpowered cause its limited by reload

    (Disgression HCM kinda looks a need to overcome all of these +IAS skill that empty ur clip in one sec and makes u reload so often. It’s there to compensate a flaw imo).

    - For handgun : the weapon is “low” so a minor boost should set it up to a powerfull thing

    (As its the path weapon, i’ll disgress and talk more about the class : actually I think the path is op in dmg, vs mass melee thing, and has no chance to fight boss, basic sc2 reaper had a special attack for building and / drugs for survival so u can have 4 “tree” gun/move/drugs/sabotage but nvm ...)

    - For mm, a minor boost too should be ok +0.5dmg, +1 range +0.5 ias +0.5 reload

    - For MG it’s all found : clip size / fill clip with some burstfire thing...

    So skill suit with weapon and weapon with class.

    Yeah I know this is abuse but all of this to say that ... well weapon balance and skill balance are linked and its important...

    Last edited: May 21, 2014
  15. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    technically there would not be a laser rifle
    because a rifle is a musket that has spiral in the project path to spin the shot for more speed impact and accuracy
    a laser does not need the spiral to be better so it would not be a rifle
    so the laser cannon would be the laser musket
  16. Stereo
    • Development Team

    Stereo Paper Boy

  17. ComradeHX

    ComradeHX Well-Known Member

    That does not mean Laser rifle's barrel can't have rifling; it just means rifling is pointless.
  18. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    will you show flame 12 blasts like this or another way
  19. ComradeHX

    ComradeHX Well-Known Member

    Btw, better use the term "suppressor" instead of "silencer."
  20. Bari
    • Donator

    Bari New Member

    Actually laser light could use either a polarizing lens to change the polarization from elliptical or circular to linear or viceversa enhancing either electromagnetic or heat absorption effects, or an optical system to focus the rays coming out of the resonant cavity, both working very much like the spiral that you mentioned.

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