NOTD Players Today - Monkey See, Monkey Do.

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by MissHumpz, Apr 2, 2014.

  1. MissHumpz
    • Event Coordinator
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    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

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  2. Blaqk
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    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    The truest story ever told.
  3. supernova

    supernova New Member

    so what are you trying to say? that 'today's' notd players are absolutely clueless about the game in general?
  4. Commlink
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    Commlink Programmer/Asset Designer

    newer players just do what older players do and follow them without a single clue how to play the game, monkey see monkey do. I'm not ashamed to admit i hardly know anything about notd1, most of the time i just stick with the team, why? cause that's how more experienced handle teaching just follow the team... o and don't die.
  5. Blaqk
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    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    The only implication you should take away from this is that too many players learn how to do something without learning why. Can you tell me WHY it's a bad idea to fight Eos or Demeter on the upper arm of the fort?
  6. MissHumpz
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    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

    No I am not saying todays NOTD players are "absolutely clueless about the game in general".

    You're missing the point.

    I don't really see any of today's new generation of players being creative and coming up with new paths and routes. They just copy what older players have done before them.
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  7. supernova

    supernova New Member

    ok

    there
  8. Commlink
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    Commlink Programmer/Asset Designer

    <- new generation player to notd1, what i did went and help make notd2 =) lol jokes aside. Yea i see where your coming from humpz, but if a player has just been taught to stay with the team rather than understand the plot its hard for new generation players to devise a new route or alternative attack without first gaining abetter understanding. Even when they gain abetter understanding some players look down on others because it is not "the correct way/there way" to play notd1.
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  9. Blaqk
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    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    That's what she's saying, silly.
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  10. Eagle 11

    Eagle 11 Well-Known Member

    Thats because everything possible has been done already, longst before they came by. Whatever they do, will end up have had followed someone else's strategy even if they tought to have figured a new way. So they keep stickin to whatever is deemingly presented as the most efficient way of grinding through the storyline with shortest length for them.
    Thats because they are a couple of years late to the party. Seriously, this map has been around for an long time. Its a static story containing not much dynamism, as in very little randomization. Its natural that the map has tossed head into limits of own content losing consciousness and thus doesnt have anything new to offer for a quite a while by now, besides the occasional unintended bug introduced as side-effect by an new patch.
  11. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    ....Blaqk, Humpz, you can't have this shit both ways:


    When a shitload of what MADE these tactics in the first place is night after night of trial and error trying out every possible combination of terrible ideas until one stuck as the most efficient.
    You really can't tell the first time why fighting any particular boss at any particular location is a bad idea until it shits all over your face and you learn.
  12. Stereo
    • Development Team

    Stereo Paper Boy

    I think its just that it is easier for experienced players to just say that one shouldn't do that and move on simply because it is easier and they (experienced players) never explain because no one (newer players) ever asks about why. Thus they simply move on.
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  13. MissHumpz
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    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

    I agree with you Yuey, the original vets had the hardest job of discovering what worked and what didn't. What failed and what worked well. They discovered the methods that worked and passed on that route.

    However, that said, there is no single one way to do things. For example, look at the differences between the NA and EU routes. I personally quite enjoy playing the EU routes because to me, they are different and not repetitive.

    Point is, a lot of people follow things without really questioning why or understanding why.
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  14. EdowardoLMP

    EdowardoLMP Well-Known Member

    Can't agree more, feels sad for the past gens players who nv got credited, made those routes and constantly modifies to give better and easier walk-throughs to new gens players.

    Sadly, RIP SEA routes !!!! We, the SEAmen and women will miss totally miss those non-stop kiting, risk taking moments... GG
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  15. Commlink
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    Commlink Programmer/Asset Designer

    Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
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  16. Lord NiteShade
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    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    NOTD is repetitive. Thats the basic principle. It went through two stages as almost any game of a farming nature goes.

    The first stage is the learning phase. Players do not yet know the routes, tactics, or overall strategies to succeed. They either don't exist yet or are simply not widely known or employed. The only real way to win is to keep attempting trial and error. New builds, new team layouts, new strategies and positions. You keep working at it until you get it right. Players during the learning phase have a difficult task. Many quit and the few that survive to struggle on have to be independent, quick thinking, resourceful, and adaptable. When the game is constantly changing from updates and patches, with new tools being given and new threats being added it keeps things fresh. Each update could undo major tactics, invalidate entire strategies, or otherwise reshape the landscape.

    This stage has long since passed. Some time in 2012 the game entered what I'd call the Grinding Phase. The game is now in a semi-stable state. Updates are more for balance than for new content. Major assets like bosses, classes, and storylines are finalized. At this point the players can finally lock in the best/most efficient routes for success. Because things are stable, grinding phase players are less concerned with just surviving, and more concerned with thriving. They will work to quickly farm the game using well tested tactics. The goal isnt to improve, its to become efficient. As a result grinding phase players focus on rigid memorization, coordination, and ability to stick to a plan to succeed. There isnt as much focus on deviation or as much planning for the unexpected as there once was. After all, why bother with unorthodox tactics when we know "the best route".

    So thats the rift. The first generation players are used to recovering from bad situations, having to adapt on the fly, and overall higher levels of randomness. The second gen focus more on perfecting what they know. This can create a problem where a second gen player learns everything from the first gens, but doesnt understand why they learned it. They know XYZ combination of events is safe and will win the game easily. But they may not truly grasp the reasons. Deviation from a plan thanks to inclement conditions is met with fear and uncoordination, often resulting in serious results from trivial reasons.

    So thats the rub. The community grows stagnant and losses its adaptability. New ideas and met with hostility and overall the veterans become worse at thinking on the fly. Hopefully NOTD2 will prevent much of this with better terrain and more randomized layouts and mission structure. The goal is for 1 fool proof routine to not work. The game should be free flowing enough and random enough that players are always weighing the odds and reevaluating their position. This will keep people independent and quick thinkers, while reinforcing cohesion and leadership in the upper echelons.
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  17. MissHumpz
    • Event Coordinator
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    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

    [​IMG]

    I still think our SEA route of "Run from everything Survival" is the best kind of fun. :')
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  18. EdowardoLMP

    EdowardoLMP Well-Known Member

    Which is why there are more buffing patches that are typically focusing for the "being too easy" peoples, and it also affects the stability of the NOTD map in the first place. AC is one of the best example, being brutal > meh > brutal x2, which is why I strongly suggest that the content must be kept balanced with the overall game play.

    Yes, it was way more intensive and fun that the current meh, really miss those old days...
  19. Jumping here as a new generation notder, the problem is vets don't think they have enough time to say why, the whys I learned was when shit hits the fan, for example I don't tank Eos there as the mobs can come from my back without a way out, I like to tank a little bqck so I can escape from rocks if for some weird reason I can't keep up, for deme I don't tank there as slither eat me instead of spawning down and taking the long route.
    Ps please ask more whys, I am interested
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  20. ChuckWing

    ChuckWing Member

    I think the only thing wrong with this example is the fact that the monkeys never get the banana (their original goal). Sure if people keep doing the same things over and over again without winning, this example would be perfect.

    I have to wonder though.... the strategy that the players I play with use on every storyline has changed immensely from when I started playing. Usually it's changed due to the mechanics of the game changing, or one of us finding a slightly better/efficient way to do things. If some people actually play the same way as they did back then... no wonder they aren't getting the banana.
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