Unimplemented NOTD 2: The Psi Ops

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Kith, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Deals damage on a delay, mostly. I'd like that to remain unique to the Medic.
  2. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    That catalyst skill is still susceptible to the issue I brought up. The only difference is that it is a hard-capped quantity and the massive duration-cooldown would cause the skill to see highly infrequent use. It really does resemble a Mass IV except with the added bodies not exploding immediately upon death and friendly fire.

    That 140 DPS from Tempest only applies to when there is one target. If you hit 10 units with Psi Storm for 1 second (2 Procs), the DPS becomes 500 [100 * (1 + .4 * 10)]. Similarly, once corpses start popping with Catalyst, that 100 DPS becomes 300 if only one corpse explodes per second and can very easily pop higher.

    If you detonate Mindflare over a stack of 10 chain explosives and hit a boss, and if Mindflare causes the Explosives to explode, you suddenly just dealt 3000 * (1 + .4 * 11) + (10 * 400) damage instantly, otherwise known as 20,000 (with 4,000 coming from the Chains). Catalyst would be junk with Mindflare, even if you rooted the enemy to the dead corpses, topping out at 5,000 provided Mindflare kills the 10 Chains and triggers Catalyst.

    The problem is Echoes having the great benefit of boosting damage when you hit more enemies and the T3's being capable of hitting multiple enemies. A 3k Nuke gets 40% damage per target in a 1.5 radius and Swarms involving more enemies die more quickly. Its a different question on how well this translate into practice from theory, but there is a very easy way to get units to damage and destroy for damage in the form of explosive items which can very easily Boost Mindflare if you're capable of planting bombs, casting a root or slow, and waiting to detonate Mindflare when the boss is in the center of the bombs. Demolition is dedicated to producing these bombs and having Psi-Ops use and detonate them with Mindflare would have a greater impact than the Demolition detonating them himself.
  3. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    AI could be handwaved somewhat and I decided to focus on the zombies because they should be the more prominent enemies. But yeah, same deal with mechanical enemies as with mindless zombies. Not a big deal though.
  4. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    I feel like you're missing the point, a little, at the part I underlined. Catalyst killing things causes explosions. At level 2, this does 200 damage. Things killed by catalyst also explode, spreading catalyst even more.

    For example: Let's put Catalyst in NotD 1 for a moment.

    The situation: EC NM, at the start. You get the ghoul wave.

    You have catalyst (Not happening but it's a theoretical scenario)

    It would only have to be set on one ghoul for the psi ops to single handedly with a single spell kill an entire horde. Even at just level one. Every ghoul you kill with an explosion, is going to explode, killing more things, for the entire duration of a minute. The damage dealt is entirely proportional to the amount of enemies involved. One ghoul exploding would do 200 damage at level 2. One hundred ghouls exploding would deal a total of 20,000 damage. The balancing factor here IS the cooldown, the risk of friendly fire, coupled with a 50 energy cost.
  5. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    I feel like you're also missing the point. It should have been readily apparent that Echoes has far greater intensity for one T3 compared to other one, an issue similarly present in Catalyst. The true change is simply in which skill is favored.

    If you Tempest with Echoes, you'll have generally less damage than if you were to Tempest with Catalyst.

    If you Mindblast with Echoes, you'll have shitloads more damage than if you were to Mindblast with Catalyst. And that is an instant-Mindblast; not a charged one.

    Hit 100 enemies with Mindblast + Echoes? You just dealt 123,000 Damage to each enemy. But around 20 would be sufficient to deal 27,000 damage.

    But use Mindblast + Catalyst, and you probably only did 3,000 unless something died, in which case if everything died, it'd deal 23,00 Damage.

    Hit 100 enemies with Tempest + Echoes? You're dealing in the ballpark of 4,1000 damage to each in a second, but then again, you're not going to ever find 100 enemies in such a condensed space.

    But if you for some unholy reason kill more than 10 enemies at once with Tempest + Catalyst, you can easily break 5000 damage a second.

    You'd need to be hitting 10 enemies in a tight group with Echoes, or just kill two with Catalyst to get 500 DPS. Persistent damaging would very easily allow for maintainable killing.

    The only difference between Echoes and Catalyst is on-death, and the fraction of damage dealt respective to each skill. 40% is less than 200 for most skills, with the sole exception of Mindblast. For all other skills, its anywhere from a 100% to 200% increase in damage while Mindblast sees a drop from 40% to less than 7%.

    Friendly fire is not a legitimate risk with these skills. Its hardly a risk because everything dies. If a wave somehow managed to reach your team through an Echoes/Catalyst Tempest, it would have fucked your shit over regardless, especially when you consider the fact that other classes have AoE Slows and that you as a Psi Ops have a root skill. If anything, Echoes is more risky considering it is always present and could very well cause Mental Blades to kill you if its used from point-blank. On the contrary, 3 seconds is adequate time to move away from a corpse.

    That said, both skills are terrible ideas, primarily due to how powerful they are. Echoes has the potential to cause Mindblast to massively damage bosses, and Catalyst causes Tempest to utterly wreck swarms in addition to being an active. The only real synergy present is a result of her skills dealing damage and the skill causing her to deal more damage. It doesn't really tie any of the skills together.

    If the residual energy thing is going to be maintained, then why not just make it so that enemies that were recently hit or are currently debuffed by Psi Ops' skills take more damage, or just have casting a skill also apply a weaker version of the debuffs & damage of the previously cast skill.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    What ties Echoes together for the tree is the concept of hitting more enemies means more payouts because all of the Psi Ops' abilities are area of effect.

    That said, either I'm going to give Echoes a hard cap on how much additional damage can be dealt or make it a flat bonus per skill.
  7. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Okay. How about a passive skill that if you root them in place and force push them while they're rooted, it causes them to explode, leaving residual amounts of energy to be exploited by any of the other skills. For instance, for x enemies killed, tempest does y amount more damage per second if it's cast in the residual energy, which would last, say... 15 seconds? (The energy, of course).

    Blades can do radial aoe damage with this energy, and mindflare can get base damage + y% damage on top of the charging damage, in this case.
  8. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    inception was the famous ability of the psi ops and it is not in notd 2
  9. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Liaison

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    Correct. I'm not sure if you're asking a question or just making an obvious statement.
  10. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yes, it is. It's just not on the Psi Ops.
  11. nex_

    nex_ Member

    Thats the original nickname from the do skill if I'm right :)
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yep! Sure is.
  13. zXr.666
    • Donator

    zXr.666 Member

    Being a NOTD PO Mind Mastery fan, these changes are a bit hard to swallow, but Given how MM was thrown out Telepathy effectively switched to Telekinesis and Telepathy reborn, for NOTD 2 I'll stick with Telepathy PO. On a side note Squish is nuttier than Squirl Girl.
  14. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yeah, Mind Mastery got split up/changed quite a bit 'cause it was pretty overpowered. Sorry for sinking your favorite ship, but it was kinda necessary.
  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Psychic Echoes has become a flat damage bonus based on the skill in question.
    Mindflare and Psionic Tempest have had their overall energy costs reduced.
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Hey guess who just completely overhauled the Psi Ops.

    Changelog:
    • Rebalanced energy costs to fit the new standard.
    • Thought Process has been reworked into a source of clarification for the Psi Ops' abilities. All Psi Ops abilities now have 0 cooldown and the Transient property, which means they can be cast without interrupting other actions (aka does not interrupt movement).
    • Mind's Eye has been reworked into a Blindness immunity.
    • Telekinesis has been overhauled and given a greater focus on manipulating enemy positions.
    • Force Push's damage has been increased, but it has lost its stun effect while knocking back enemy units. It has also obtained a new name in the form of Disperse.
    • Mental Blades has been replaced by Converge, which is basically an inversion of Disperse.
    • Force Press has been replaced by Shackles, which is a rebalanced version of the original.
    • Psychic Echoes has been replaced by Levitate, which is basically the Gravity Gun's grab.
    • The Psi Ops can now use other abilities while Psionic Tempest is active.
    • Mindflare has been replaced by Teleport, an ability that can... well, teleport things.
    • Cloak of Fear has been replaced by Blind, which does exactly what it sounds like.
    • Scapegoat's leveling has been overhauled.
    • Blockade has been replaced by Silence, which prevents ability use and can also drain Energy.
    • Guilt has been adjusted to a 5%/10% reduction in attack speed.
    • Mind Meld has been replaced by Berserk, an ability that increases Weapon Damage but increases damage taken.
    • Pandora's Box has been replaced by Visions, which creates an illusion copy of the target unit.
  17. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Does Disperse Knock-back from the origin of the skill, or knock-back in the direction it was casted. That is, if you cast it at the center of a clump of enemies, do the enemies all get pushed out to form a circle, or do they move further away from you together?

    Does Disperse have any additional effects if you push enemies up against a wall or at the edge of a cliff?

    How quickly does the Knock-Back / Pull-In effect move the units?

    What is the result if a Disperse / Converge is used on a unit affected by Shackles?

    If Silence is cast in the middle of an enemy unit channeling an ability, is that channeling / ability thus interrupted?

    Can Berserk be stacked?

    Does Visions have a duration? If not, can multiple Visions be made to be present? Do the Visions acquire any durability based on the base unit it mimics? This skill seems underwhelming, at least initially, but if you can create a horde indefinitely with it, then I think the reverse would be true.

    Psi Ops is really hard-core crowd-control with this, and though the lack of cool-downs seems initially dangerous and overpowering, I think its actually a good choice and probably allows great "creative freedom" in how that control is achieved.
  18. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The latter. I'll clarify the effects.

    Nope.

    The same rate that knockback happens for other knockback effects - fairly quickly.

    Units take damage but don't move. I'll toss in bonus damage for giggles.

    Yes.

    No.

    Visions has a 120 second duration, thank you for reminding me to clarify. Multiple illusions can be present at one time. Illusions have 300 hitpoints and 0 armor.

    It helps lend the Psi Ops a unique playstyle, yeah. I like it because at first it seems extremely powerful, but in reality it just means you have to be even more careful than you are normally with managing Energy reserves.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015

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