NOTD 2: The Medic

Discussion in 'Canceled Content' started by Kith, Feb 6, 2014.

  1. Lolurisk

    Lolurisk Member


    though is it possible for nano haste or nano-strength to maybe reduce weapon setup time by some small amount?
  2. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Nope. Defensive play is going to be, on the whole, weaker than it is now. I don't care if players pick "the wrong thing" - it's their decision to make.

    ... Aftershock is literally underneath Nano-Shock. You don't see Aftershock unless Nano-Shock is on cooldown, not unlike the current Mobcon's Escape/Cloak shenanigans. You want to cast Aftershock quickly? Press F again immediately.


    Aftershock doesn't need a range, considering it's limited to units that Nanoshock damaged in the last 8 seconds. It's not something you target.

    I don't want waypoint casting.

    Maybe. Probably not, but maybe.
  3. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Wait what? So... There's no risk to using it? Just.. tap F and profit?

    If that's the case then... yeah. I like it. And... waypoint targeting is helpful. Play NotD 1, get nanomedic, get nano strength, and run in circles using waypoints, then nano str the group in a waypoint. It's... fast.
  4. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yes. I mean, there's still an energy cost, and I've removed Energy Capacitors from Nanomed, but that's the gist of it.

    I am aware. I dislike waypoint casting because it means that there's something that involves a lot of spamming, and there's a reason that I have been upping durations and cooldowns lately.
  5. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Defensive play appears superior to the "offensive play" that I assume Nano-strength is intended to provide. A single target buff, or a possible durability increase for the entire team? The defensive skill, Nano-shield in that sense supersedes Nano-strength, by virtue of being able to affect your entire team provided your team has sufficient cohesion to allow you to hit all team members, while Nano-strength, regardless of how it is used, is a simple 1 player buff. There is not skill floor nor skill ceiling to Nano-strength, as it is effectively a perpetual damage buff.

    Nano-strength just appears like shit because of the fact that it is devolved into a permanent damage buff. Nano Strength reminds me of Focus Fire in that aspect. Just mash the damn button every time its off cool-down, sure needs some skill, especially when its 1 mash per minute. Hell, even Focus Fire needs more skill because Focus Fire actually presents a risk of depleting your energy.

    There is not a semblance of tactical use for this skill except always cast it onto the DPS class. Why don't you just make it a skill granting a permanent damage boost for the selected target while draining 1 energy every 2 seconds. Because it sure as hell isn't much different then that.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    You're assuming that the players will always be together. Several missions will involve splitting up.

    That said, I am considering nerfing Nano-Shield to not involve energy restoration on the basis of it being simply too convenient.
  7. DrCaptain
    • Donator

    DrCaptain Well-Known Member

    Do that. Or you could even just increase the rate of energy restoration by X for the 30 seconds that the nano-shield is up.
  8. TheWolf
    • Donator

    TheWolf Surgeon of Death

    i wouldnt remove the energy restore option a a whole for now. change the value or how the system works. if its to under- or too overpowered in a betaversion with all classes it can still be balanced.
  9. Stereo
    • Development Team

    Stereo Paper Boy

    I would take shield over stim, as it is now. Mostly because I like to have an "Oh shit!" button. A full shield restore, energy, and additional shield armor takes the win, even if it is for just thirty seconds.

    I could only see myself taking stim for the 100% damage boost to melee, instead of the 50% to guns and turning. It would make the crowbar something for DPS classes. Also, would the 100% affect melee secondaries, such as combat knife or tomahawk?
  10. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I have made the decision to make everyone sad and remove the energy restoration and make Nanoshield strictly defensive.
  11. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Still better than a mindless buff called Nano-Strength. Nerf Nano-Shield all you desire, doing so won't make Nano-Strength any less of a shitty skill.

    Nano Strength, as a whole, lacks any semblance of the player's skill level making a distinct impact upon the skill's performance. Nano Shield, by its nature, is better because Player Skill matters, and is therefore preferred because the possibilities of it are much higher than that of Generic Damage Buff 13. At the same time, Nano Shield is capable of being utterly useless if used incorrectly. If someone manages to fuck up Nano Strength, they did so intentionally or have a high chance of being mentally unfit, because there is no possibly way to cast it on nobody, and it should have been obvious from the get-go to cast it on a DPS class and maintain the buff.

    Nano Strength is stupidly easy to use and has little upkeep cost. You're trying to make Nano Strength better by reducing its competition, but that does not change the fact that Nano Strength will remain trash until you add some distinction between the floor and ceiling of the skill. At this point, I can care less if Nano Strength added 5% or 50% or 500% increased damage - none of that changes the fact that Nano Strength is a flat, one-dimensional skill lacking any substance.
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I'm not nerfing Nano-Shield for the sake of Nano-Strength. I'm nerfing Nano-Shield for the sake of Nano-Shield.

    I'll worry about Nano-Strength once NOTD 2 is up and running. For now, for what I have planned, Nano-Strength is fine.

    Forgot to reply to this. Yes, Nano-Strength will apply the melee bonus to melee sidearms.
  13. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Max - inputs below by section.

    A - Medical Training
    In live game application, this is relatively less flexible. If a target has 2 ailments and low HP, I may want to just cure with Bandage/Antivenom but not use Medkit. Maybe I just want to use First Aid to cure HP as I have a lot of Energy and the situation isn't critical. This may force me to waste a Medkit if I have one on inventory. Suggestion is the following logic check:

    If (target has Venom=true) OR (target has Open Wound=true), then
    --if (target has Venom=true), then
    ----use Antivenom
    --if (target has Open Wound=true), then
    ----use Bandage
    elseif (target current life < 80%), then
    --use Medkit

    By doing this, it gives the Medic more flexibility to cure ailments (which are usually more critical). If I want to use everything in an 'oh shit' moment, I can just double-tap Medical Training quickly to use all 3 (1st tap to cure ailments, 2nd tap to use medkit).

    B - Nano Haste
    There's too little micro for a Tier 1 skill. 60/50/40 second cooldown is too long and I can effectively serve 1-2 targets at a time. From a Talent perspective (ignoring positioning, target prioritization, and others), I'm not going to be able to do much to differentiate myself as a good Medic in Tier 1 (big contrast vs. the 8 and 5 second cooldown skills on Nano Tree Tier 1). I would recommend lower Talent cooldown and duration to maybe 25 seconds effect with 20/15/10 second cooldown. This will give the Medic more to do and prioritize the stat buff vs. just for 1-2 players. It helps make things more organic and faster paced.

    C - Nano Weave
    I would remove the random ailment healing as it makes my Tier 1 Talents relatively less useful in non-critical situations. A bit too much overlap and simplifies the Medic's job (less Talent use optimization opportunity for pro players).

    D - Volatile Injection
    Volatile Injection is too strong to be a Tier 1 Talent in the hands of a pro player. The damage output vs. Nano Shock at same Tier is not even comparable. Less energy (10 energy vs 20 energy) for more damage (200 vs 150 damage with smaller radius at Tier 3). In Vet games, damage output is more useful than 45% slow (because teams will know how to focus fire, gather mobs and kite more effectively). In addition, when progressing into Tier 2, Aftershock (extra 10 Energy) requires more micro while Intolerable Cruelty is a passive that buffs the Tier 1 (Volatile Injection).

    Damage output at Max upgrade until Tier 2,
    1. Volatile Injection path - 30 energy - 3 casts - 600 damage spread with targeted control using kiting
    2. Nano-Shock path - 30 energy - Shock + Aftershock - 300 damage with stun in fixed 3.5 radius.

    It's theorycraft, but our experience in NOTD shows that Vet teams benefit more from pure damage vs. slows/stuns. Pure damage also makes games goes faster which helps Speed Bonus. Volatile Injection needs to be moved to Tier 2 or nerfed, else Volatile Injection will be the choice 90% of the time for Vet games.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
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  14. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yeah, okay. Makes sense.

    The feedback that I've gotten from all of the Aftermath veterans has been that durations and cooldowns alike are too short, making skills too spam-heavy. With the addition of jumping and other new mechanics, I wanted to cut down on the things that the player has to keep track of.

    As for the cooldowns/durations, I got these numbers from ye olde Aftermath. Granted, in ye olde Aftermath, there were only a handful of classes worth roiding, but it was a very important decision on who to roid and when. Do you use it on the Force Recon when he leaves for BHD, or do you roid the Machine Gunner to thin out the hordes?

    I will keep your feedback in mind once we get out of theorycraft and into the testing phase, but for now I'm going to leave it as is.

    I would prefer to increase the energy cost rather than make the skill less effective. Is that acceptable, or do you insist on the removal?

    Good point. I will adjust its energy cost, cooldown, and possibly damage.
  15. TheWolf
    • Donator

    TheWolf Surgeon of Death

    I'm in Favor for keepin the random ailment on weave because:
    the mainreason that weave can/should cure ailments was that restore is gone and therefore theres no way to completly remove all stacsk at once. with 20venomstacks that will be really painfull (in regards to current notd since parts of this medic will be applied there too).
    if the max stackamount for ailmetns is reduced in dont see much problem in removing it. also theres current no "safe" way to remove madness if its still a thing.

    VI is a bit powerfull for a t1 thats true but then again you most likely wont see nano that often in nm since (curretnly) Fa is prefered as most go for more dps classes or exped.

    Haste duraton/CD depends. if the duration is reduced maybe the speed at which fractures/ broken bones are cured needs to be shorter. and i dunno why ppl complain is too spamable. atm fa med doesnt really have much ways to burn energy anyways (except shooting allies to weave and beam them/ bad team that gets permadmged)
  16. EdowardoLMP

    EdowardoLMP Well-Known Member

    AV cooldown is hawt tops at 5 seconds (3 sec in NOTD1). GG to those getting torn by parasites.

    What about enhancing Tier 1 skills under the effect of weave? Example like halven the time to cure OW with Heal ; Anti Venom can remove 2 or more venom stack; Halven the time to cure fracture with Nano-haste. Since restoration is gone, removing only 1 random ailment for 10/7 seconds seems very helpless when somebody is heavily stacked by certain ailments. This could promote an alternative way of getting rid of heavy stacked instead of the old fashion mass AV or SL heal. I rather sacrifice a 30 energy weave and the just to save more time/energy to cure OW/AV (15 sec can cure 6-7 OWs or at least 6 stacks of AV) in addition he/she will definitely survive the heavy stacking thanks to Weave as well.

    Would also make sense if the "Weave" nanites will boost the effects of other applicant altogether, making them more potent than just normal applicant.

    Nano-shield will definitely gonna get nullified by EMP.... Suggesting increase shield regen instead of fully restore shields if you want to nerf it so badly.
  17. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    While most ailments will not stack with themselves, they are getting split into various types that can stack with each other - for instance, there will be 10 or so different types of Venom, and 4 or so different types of Cripple. Open Wounds will stack up to 20, though.

    Because people like shooting things. They don't have much to do in the way of abilities, but they can still have time to attack in-between casts. This is coming from a time when ALL damage was important instead of the current situation we have where support classes are almost negligible in their DPS impact, but it's also important to consider anyways. Besides, having less to keep track of and more time to shoot is good for newbies.

    The reason that Nano-Weave cures things on its own is because the entire point of Weave is to give the player the ability to heal two people at once. Making it a combo buff spell makes it not the "Pocket Medic" that it is supposed to be.

    Getting hit by EMP weapons will be solely the players' fault, considering they will all be able to be dodged. Even then, EMPs will knock out shields, not energy.
  18. Thermidor

    Thermidor Well-Known Member

    Are the Medic stats the same as the NOTD 1 Medic? I'm aware in another thread you have said all stats are the same unless stated otherwise but Nite wants to be sure before I add this stuff to the NOTD 2 Medic wiki page.
  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

  20. Grevious

    Grevious Member


    A medic that might actually be fun to play O.O

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