NOTD 2: The Marksman

Discussion in 'Canceled Content' started by Kith, Aug 5, 2014.

  1. nex_

    nex_ Member

    If u need french crap talk.
  2. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    • Tooltips updated to be more concise.
    • "Subtlety" renamed to "Ambush".
    • Stealth upgraded with a new passive effect: breaking the cloak by attacking refunds up to 10 seconds of the ability's cooldown based on the duration that was remaining at the time of attack.
    • Quick Aim moved to Tier 2 and renamed Blitz. There's a high likelihood of the Ambush Marksman using melee weapons, so I want the ability name to be contextually appropriate for that situation.
    • Shadowstep moved to Tier 1.
    • Death Unseen has been replaced by Walkabout.
    • Ambush Tactics has been replaced by Mercy.
    These changes came from the realization that, all in all, the SubMM was not very scout-ish until hitting Tier 2. Reorganization of the first two tiers and the complete overhaul of the third has supposedly solved this problem by having each tier offer the choice between a mobility/utility skill and a combat skill.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015
  3. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    I don't like "Walkabout" at all, it feels bad in both scouting and combat aproach.
    For combat side of use, 1 mag only sux balls. Not copied accessories might also fuck up attempts at kiting (attck/move speed diff)
    For scouting, 30 sec is short and lack of inventory means that after finding something usefull you need to go there anyway...

    Only use i can see is: When overleved you-> mono - pop a copy - mono with copy - run leaving copy as meatbag for distraction.

    Mercy looks cool BUT, does it count as weapon danage to get buffed by CQC?

    Renaming tree to Ambush brings slight issue for people coming from notd as sudenly whichever tree you pick you are AMM. My brain and googlefu didn't bring any synonyms that would make sense and start from another letter tho.
  4. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    Skirmisher tree?
    Its a pretty good description of how the Ambush tree is going to operate, a slightly spread out member of the main body of units that intercepts and disrupts enemy formations. Given the CQC and highly mobile nature of SMM, it might fit eventhough traditional skirmishers are more about abusing their superior range and mobility.
    And we even get to keep the SMM shorthand. :D
  5. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    For a versatile/utility T3, it's pretty good for both combat and scouting. Let's assume the player has a flamethrower, and because they have stealth, shadowstep, and two units to work with, let's assume they're getting the maximum amount of damage from that flamethrower and CQC.

    6 x 12 = 72 (Flamethrower base damage)
    72 x .9 = 64.8 (CQC's damage bonus)
    72 + 64.8 = 136.8 (damage per shot)
    136.8 x 30 = 4104 (damage per magazine)

    That's pretty stinkin' good damage potential for a Tier 3 that's primarily designed around the concept of utility! Of course, the majority of the damage potential relies on the player being good, which is the entire point of the rework in the first place.

    Any class can be a scout, but only the Scout classes get a ton of abilities that help them avoid enemies. Walkabout definitely fits that bill, and if you don't believe me, go play the Psi Ops. Those Mental Projections make the Psi Ops pretty much impossible to catch.

    Walkabout won't be getting AMM skills because that's silly.

    God no. Wait for the boss to be at 50% health to nail it for 5k damage, and that only goes up the longer you wait. Nearly doubling that would make it disgusting.

    Skirmisher it is.
  6. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    You don't factor in crits? Will those not be a thing?
    So, free 100% damage boost for 30 seconds or 30/40 shots, depending. Meh. Whole game is becoming more and more meh.

    GOOD! More reason to skip it.
    So, no helping the T3, no down the tier continuity. Very meh, much wow.

    How do crits work in the game? Debuff on target or weapon damage debuff? Either way you go it gets dumb, quick.

  7. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I see someone didn't read the update. The SMM doesn't have Critical Strike as an ability any longer - it's been replaced by CQC. The calculation is taking into account base functionality only, and Critical Strike on a SMM would involve Perception or a Medal/Badge - there's no point in including it.

    And a bodily distraction, something you seem to be willfully ignoring.

    You're kidding, right? Every ability the SMM has is tied into a single concept of burst damage/ambush attacks and light scouting.
    • CQC is a 90% damage bonus if used properly and I don't need to explain that any further.
    • Shadowstep helps you get in and out for CQC. Also useful for getting around and scouting.
    • Quick Aim helps you get the most out of the CQC bonus by frontloading your damage bonus so you don't have to remain in close range for very long.
    • Stealth is another in/out tool, one that can be used immediately after completing a strike. Also useful for scouting.
    • Walkabout can help you with your burst attack and it can help you escape.
    • Mercy helps you finish off what you just bursted down.
    I really don't see how you came to the conclusion that there's no "down the tier continuity".

    Weapons have two different damage types - crit and non-crit. If Critical Strike procs, you get the crit damage instead. That's all there is to it.
  8. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Okay, and how will they affect the damage dealt? Will they be a target based debuff, as they are now in NotD1? If so, that gets silly quick, to the order of a flamer peeling away about two to four hundred HP from an agron per shot, before other modifiers.

    If they're affect damage dealt, rather than taken, then you get silly things like a surg nuke critting and hitting everything it damages for numbers in excess of 6,000.

    To my understanding, those are the two ways that crits work. The former lets single targets get melted stupid fast, whereas the latter leads to retarded burst damage output.
  9. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    NOTD 2's weapons have "critical" effects, which are alternate versions of the base weapon effect that activate when you roll a critical strike. These critical effects can be altered in just about any way you can imagine - they can even be entirely different weapons (for example, you could make the critical effect of an Assault Rifle into a Shotgun). When the player rolls a critical strike, the game uses that weapon effect instead of the base one, and that's all there is to it. Abilities do not interact with critical strike in any way unless they specifically state that they do.

    You can find more information about how critical strikes affect a weapon's damage output in the weapons thread - each weapon has an individual critical strike damage value.
  10. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Okay, so these are damage dealt critical effects, as opposed to damage taken debuffs.

    Elaboration on the distinction: Before crits in NotD1 were changed, they affected damage dealt, leading you to do +100% damage for a time. This lead to crit surg nukes.

    Now: They place a debuff on the target: Any damage taken +100%. This leads to specific units taking a lot of damage while the rest suffer normal damage output.

    This also has the effect of if a class like SMM and Armsalt attack the same target with an ops mando, well it just disappears lol because the SMM and armsalt critical effects lead to +200% damage taken effect, and with a flamer on mando doing 9 * 12 + 180% vs queen (not counting HE), if the mando crits too, it's +300% damage taken on target.

    Before crits mando (level 12 or higher) with flamer + HE HCM and heightened senses can be expected if all 12 flames hit to do on the order of about 32k worth of damage per reload. Throw in some crits or stacking crits (lol) and that number fucktouples in size.

    I notice multiple lines in the screenshot for the flamethrower? Can I get elaboration on how that works? I'm curious.

    Edit: post done for now. I ninja edit my posts a lot to add things in. I'll try to make it a point when I do that to append something like this to the end of the post to let people know when it's "done" in the future.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The flamethrower produces 12 projectiles in total, so each projectile has its own normal damage and critical damage effects. If you roll a critical strike, all of the projectiles produced by the weapon use critical damage instead of normal damage. It's not really much of a boost for the flamethrower because, as part of the flamethrower's balance, it only gains 20% bonus damage from critical strikes.
  12. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    So, does it produce the entire line all at once, such that some units are hit by some flames? Or does it work like a fireball, so units get hit by all flames?
  13. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The closer the target is to the unit using the Flamethrower, the more projectiles they're hit by, and the more damage they take. I'm not actually sure if the projectiles have a travel time or if they're instant, but closer = more damage is the endgame.
  14. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Ah. Okay. Cool! Thanks.
  15. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    The "projectiles" are instant.
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    • All Energy Costs have been rebalanced to match the upcoming Energy update.
    • Eagle Eye has been rebalanced to give the Marksman perfect Detection - if the Marksman player can see a location, they can Detect units in it.
    • Monofilament Cartridge and Aimed Shot have had their Tooltips trimmed down.
    • Out Of Nowhere has been changed to Death From Afar - essentially the same thing but now also provides Scope, a reveal ability that increases Weapon and Ability range while active.
    • Shadowstep's shared MS boost has been increased to 50% of the main effect, partially for giggles and partially to make the tooltip more readable.
    • Walkabout's hologram has been rebalanced, now copying the Marksman and their weapons perfectly (save for Assassination skills and special weapons) at the cost of taking double damage.
  17. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    • Tooltips updated. Again.
    • Transience clarifier added to all abilities.
    • Monofilament Cartridge levels have been rebalanced.
    • Aimed Shot renamed to Hotshot Cartridge and rebalanced.
    • Ruthlessness has been rebalanced.
    • Headhunter has been redone in light of Hotshot Cartridge.
    • Heartbreaker has been redone in light of Monofilament Cartridge's rework.
    • Close Quarters Combat has been rebalanced.
    • Stealth's default duration has been increased and the duration refund has become a Level 2 ability.
    • Mercy has had its Energy Cost increased to 50.
    • Walkabout has been replaced with Alpha Strike, an ability that grants bonus damage to attacks made against an enemy for the first time.
  18. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Add a note that Ruthlesness doesn't allow you to create stacks of Damage Boost after annihilating a lot of enemies at once.

    What exactly does the refund do for stealth? Does it reduce the cooldown if you break stealth by the remaining duration?

    Mercy has a discrepancy between description damage and ability button damage (100 vs 50 per 1%).
  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton


    It is to limit the amount of time the Marksman can remain invisible because constant invisibility is the Recon's job, not the Marksman's. That said, yes - breaking cloak at any point refunds up to 10 seconds' worth of the ability's cooldown based on the remaining duration. As an example, if the player breaks cloak with 15 seconds left of a duration, Stealth will have a 5 second cooldown.

    Whoops! Must've put that in there on accident when changing the Energy Cost. Fixed!
  20. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    • Marksmanship has been changed from a passive bonus to a toggle ability that halves the Marksman's Attack Speed for the sake of increasing Critical Hit chance to 100%. This change was made due to the realization that a 25% Attack Speed increase for the Marksman Rifle and the Anti-Materiel Rifle did not benefit the Skirmish tree in a satisfactory way and due to theming concerns.

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