NOTD 2: The Marksman

Discussion in 'Canceled Content' started by Kith, Aug 5, 2014.

  1. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    NOTD 2: The Marksman
    Frontpage'd because so many have been waiting for it

    I could put a bunch of stuff here about why I made certain decisions but there’s a 100% chance that someone is going to be mad about the updates so I’m going to save time and just say “if you have any questions about why I did [thing], ask and I will explain it.” I intended to be on vacation for a much longer time but as it turns out I finished the majority of the Marksman update in my sleep one night and decided that I might as well finish it.


    Class Name: Marksman
    Class Biography: UGC Marksmen are soldiers who are chosen for their ability to provide accurate fire at all times.
    Class Stats: Same as NOTD.
    Class Soundset: Ghost (Placeholder)


    INNATES
    Ability Name:
    Marksmanship
    Ability Button Description:
    (Toggle ON)
    Reduce Attack Speed by 50% to gain a 100% Critical Hit chance.

    (Toggle OFF)
    Return Attack Speed to normal values, but lose 100% Critical Hit chance.
    Ability Cost: None
    Ability Cooldown: 4 Seconds
    Ability Filters: Self
    Effect:
    See Button Description.
    Transient: Yes
    Hotkey: H


    Ability Name: Eagle Eye
    Ability Button Description:
    All UGC Marksmen undergo surgery to enhance their eyesight, granting them perfect Detection.
    Effect:
    Marksman has a global Detection radius, allowing them to see invisible or burrowed units regardless of how far away they are. They still require sight of the units, however.


    - ASSASSINATION -
    Assassination has been turned into what is almost entirely a caster class, and OSOK got nerfed. Mono is WAY more powerful and prominent as a result, though.


    TIER 1
    Ability Name:
    Monofilament Cartridge
    Ability Description:
    Damages and stuns all ground units in a line.

    Level 1: Deals 600 damage and stuns for 2 seconds.
    Level 2: Effect width increased from 0.5 to 1.0.
    Level 3: Range increased from 6 to 10.

    “Energized monofliaments will go through literally anything, so be careful where you point that thing.”
    Ability Button Description:
    Deals 600 damage to ground units in a line and stuns them for 2 seconds.

    Monofilaments can damage allied units.
    Ability Cost: 20 Energy
    Ability Cooldown: 16 Seconds
    Ability Filters: Ground
    Ability Range: 6/10
    Effect:
    See Button Description. Ability is not available if the Marksman Rifle or AM Rifle is not equipped.
    Transient: No
    Hotkey: Q


    Ability Name: Hotshot Cartridge
    Ability Description:
    Deals high damage to a single target after a short aim time.

    Level 1: Marksman Rifle: 500 damage, AM Rifle: 1000 damage
    Level 2: Ability range doubled.
    Level 3: Aiming period reduced to 1 second.

    “One and done, that's what I say.”
    Ability Button Description:
    Deals [damage] to a single target after a 2 seconds/1 second.
    Ability Cost: 10 Energy
    Ability Cooldown: 6 Seconds
    Ability Filters: Enemy, Non-Structure
    Ability Range: 30/60
    Effect:
    See Button Description. Ability is not available if the Marksman Rifle or AM Rifle is not equipped.
    Transient: No
    Hotkey: W


    TIER 2
    Ability Name:
    Ruthlessness
    Ability Description:
    Provides bonus damage on the next attack after killing an enemy.

    Level 1: Increases Weapon Damage by 50%.
    Level 2: Also increases Ability Damage by 50%.

    “Killing is easy when you've done it before.”
    Effect:
    See Ability Description. This buff only applies to their next damaging effect and is consumed afterwards. Only one Ruthlessness buff may be applied at a time.


    Ability Name: Death From Afar
    Ability Description:
    Gain bonus Weapon and Ability damage based on distance from the target.

    Level 1: 1% bonus damage per 1 range, grants the Scope ability.
    Level 2: 2% bonus damage, Scope reveals a larger area and has a shorter cooldown.

    “Distance from the frontlines creates the illusion of safety. Shatter that illusion.”
    Effect:
    Passively increases all damage dealt by 1%/2% for each 1 point of distance between the target. Also grants the Scope ability:

    Ability Name: Scope
    Ability Button Description:
    Reveal a 4/6 radius area and double weapon and ability casting ranges for 10 seconds.
    Ability Cost: 10 Energy
    Ability Cooldown: 12 Seconds/8 Seconds
    Ability Range: Global
    Effect:
    See button description. Of note that the bonus range for the weapon equipped is just a unique numerical range buff based on what weapon the Marksman is using when Scope is used.
    Transient: Yes
    Hotkey: T


    TIER 3
    Ability Name:
    Headhunter
    Ability Description:
    Upgrades Hotshot Cartridge with additional damage and effects.

    Level 1: Increases damage by 50%, instantly kills non-heroic targets, and reduces cooldown by 2 seconds.

    “Heads are fragile, so shoot them. Saves ammo and time.”
    Effect:
    Increases Hotshot Cartridge's damage by 50% (for both the Marksman Rifle and AM Rifle versions). Non-heroic targets die instantly to Hotshot Cartridge.


    Ability Name: Heartbreaker
    Ability Description:
    Upgrades Monofilament Cartridge with additional damage and effects.

    Level 1: Adds 1.5% Current Health damage, the ability to hit air units, and a 50% cooldown reduction.

    “As if murder-string wasn’t scary enough, now we’ve got murder-ribbons. Whatever happened to normal bullets?”
    Effect:
    • Adds 1.5% Current Health damage to units hit by Monofilament Cartridge.
    • Monofilament Cartridge can now hit air units in addition to ground units.
    • Reduces Monofilament Cartridge's cooldown to 8 seconds.


    - SKIRMISH -
    On one hand, I lowered the skill floor pretty significantly. On the other hand, I raised the skill ceiling as well. This translates to bad players being significantly worse and good players being significantly better.


    TIER 1
    Ability Name:
    Close Quarters Combat
    Ability Description:
    Gain bonus Weapon Damage based on target proximity.

    Level 1: 30% bonus damage when within 3 range.
    Level 2: 60% bonus damage when within 2 range.
    Level 3: 90% bonus damage when within 1 range.

    “Long distance accuracy doesn't help if they’re in your personal space.”
    Effect:
    Provides the following Weapon Damage bonuses:
    30% bonus when attacking a target within 3 range.
    60% bonus when attacking a target within 2 range.
    90% bonus when attacking a target within 1 range.
    Close Quarters Combat only increases damage dealt to the main target and does not increase splash damage.


    Ability Name: Shadowstep
    Ability Description:
    Gain superhuman speed for 2 seconds and spread 50% of the bonus to nearby allies.

    Level 1: Increases Movement Speed by 100%.
    Level 2: Increases Movement Speed by 200%.
    Level 3: Increases Movement Speed by 300%.

    “Growing up, I wanted to be one of those super-speed hero types. Now I get to live it.”
    Ability Button Description:
    Increases movement speed by 100%/200%/300% for 2 seconds. Allies within a 2 radius while the ability is active gain 50%/100%/150% bonus movement speed for 2 seconds.
    Ability Cost: 15 Energy
    Ability Cooldown: 6 Seconds
    Ability Filters: Self, Allies
    Effect:
    See Button Description. Note that the "bypass bonus" should not apply to the Marksman.
    Transient: Yes
    Hotkey: F


    TIER 2
    Ability Name:
    Blitz
    Ability Description:
    Significantly increases Attack Speed for 3 seconds.

    Level 1: Increases attack speed by 200%.
    Level 2: Increases attack speed by 400%.

    “Sometimes you don’t need flawless accuracy. Sometimes you just need fast, and regular accuracy does just fine for fast.”
    Ability Button Description:
    Increases attack speed by 200%/400% for 3 seconds.
    Ability Cost: 10 Energy
    Ability Cooldown: 5 Seconds
    Ability Filters: Self
    Effect:
    See Button Description.
    Transient: Yes
    Hotkey: E


    Ability Name: Stealth
    Ability Description:
    Become invisible. Attacking or using abilities will end the effect early.

    Level 1: Renders the Marksman invisible for 20 seconds.
    Level 2: Ending invisibility early refunds up to 10 seconds of the remaining duration.

    “Pretty useful for sneaking into position for an ambush.”
    Ability Button Description:
    Become invisible for 20 seconds. /Ending invisibility early by attacking or casting will refund up to 10 seconds of the remaining duration.
    Ability Cost: 25 Energy
    Ability Cooldown: 20 Seconds
    Ability Filters: Self
    Effect:
    See Button Description. Disables automatically acquiring targets while active.
    Transient: Yes
    Hotkey: V


    TIER 3
    Ability Name:
    Mercy
    Ability Description:
    Strike the target unit, dealing damage based on missing health.

    Level 1: Deals 100 damage per 1% health missing from the target.

    “It's polite to clean up after yourself.”
    Ability Button Description:
    Deal 100 damage per 1% health missing to a single target.
    Ability Cost: 50 Energy
    Ability Cooldown: 40 Seconds
    Ability Filters: Ground, Air
    Ability Range: 8
    Effect:
    The Marksman fires a purple projectile (note to self: find something nasty looking) from their weapon that deals 100 damage per 1% health missing from the target. Ability cannot be used with melee weapons.
    Transient: No
    Hotkey: G


    Ability Name: Alpha Strike
    Ability Description:
    Increases the amount of damage dealt to an enemy during initial attacks.

    Level 1: Increases Weapon Damage by 100%. This bonus is decreased by 25% with every attack afterwards.

    “Kill 'em quick and they can't react. Simple.”
    Effect:
    First attack against a target deals 100% bonus damage, second deals 75%, third deals 50%, fourth deals 25%, and after that the bonus is gone. Alpha Strike does not apply to splash damage.
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  2. nex_

    nex_ Member

    I'm very ok on the passive (hurray the mm makes finally a better use of ranged weapon than other class), assassination tree (thought I think people may want a 12 sec cd and 1 sec cast, on aimed shot. But I'd like to say that I don't figure well the new subtlety cqc concept with his T3, basically its a 'the more near the more dmg' (making melee weapon use favoured ?), and with step it looks like a 'thunderball' ?
  3. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    So basically osok is back to old old old old shit state and new mono works somewhat like current osok trading instadeath for aoe. <- Not sure if like, more or less neutral to it for now.
    You nerfed osok range as well, probably to emhasize that it now uses your ammo and gun directly. Going by this logic dunno why it is not greater when using AM riffle.

    I don't really dig assasination tier 2 at all, bias towards anticipation and all that but 'Ruthlessness' is simply worse in my eyes.
    Were you considering just merging cd reductions into skills (1-15s,2-12s,3-9s,T3-5s) and leaving anticipation in, maybe with lower values. Now AMM gives 'fuck you all, i'm killing here' vibe while before he was of some benefit to team always if they could capitalize on positioning.



    As for SMM only cloak cd being way shorter than duration rustles my jimmies slightly.
    Rest is risk vs reward so need to see how it works before opinion, on paper kewl.
  4. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    I think you overbuffed Mono a little bit too hard. It outclasses Aimed shot pretty hard at the moment outside of finding an AM Rifle. Even then, more damage in an AOE with a stun to boot, yeah.

    I'm fine with SMM, other than the whole close range shenanigans. If you remove the CD on shadowstep like you said you would though, it'd be not as bad.
  5. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Mono and OSOK are fucking almost identical except Mono hits everything at once and OSOK is just single target. The meta will end up being 3 mono 2/2 and then the mono upgrade because OSOK is just bad.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  6. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Mono is too powerful. 900 damage and 3 second stun in a line for a Tier 1 talent at Level 3 is too strong. Will recommend toning down the damage down.
  7. TheWolf
    • Donator

    TheWolf Surgeon of Death

    inb4 lvl 3 mono can oneshot the teams recon even with only 25% ff.
  8. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Kinda concerned about ruthlessness - Does it stack and does it fade away after a period of time? If I wipe 20 enemies with a single Mono, does my next mono make a #REKT appear on the heads of bosses?

    Similar to everybody's view, I also think Monofilament is too powerful. It provides a stark contrast to the safe Aimed Shot. I don't care if it will insta-gib your allies, people already do pretty well with monofilament as it is. It just got a maximum overbuff over here.

    Head Hunter is kinda junky though. Anything very dangerous won't be affected by the instant-kill, and anything not very dangerous would die/nearly die due to the damage, provided you have the AM.

    tl;dr - Assassination is heavily biased towards Monofilament. Aimed Shot / OSOK is vastly underwhelming in comparison.

    Subtlety on the other hand seems like you'd just hand him a melee weapon and let him get whacking. Nano-strength makes a great friend with Close Quarters Combat.
  9. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yes. The closer the Subtlety Marksman is to the target, the more damage he deals. This makes the Subtlety Marksman favor close range weapons such as the shotguns, the flamethrower, and yes, even melee weapons. Due to some feedback, I'm debating on renaming the Subtlety tree to Ambush.

    Not exactly. "Old old old old" OSOK just dealt damage. This one provides damage and instant-kill with the Tier 3.

    Because the Marksman Rifle and the AM Rifle have the same base range of 20.

    I felt that Anticipation didn't really fit the concept all that well. Sorry.

    The current cloak lasts for 6 seconds at level 1 and 12 seconds at level 2 and has an 11 second cooldown. The new one lasts for 10 and 20 and has a 15 second cooldown. In both instances, the cooldown is only lower than the duration at Level 2, but the new Stealth will require more planning as it lasts longer and has a larger energy cost.

    It has more than double the cost of Aimed Shot and more than double the cooldown with the potential to murder allies instantly. I'm not worried about it.

    I said I was considering removing the cooldown, not that I was going to. That said, it's only 6 seconds and you've got Stealth for back-up in terms of escaping a bad situation, along with Jump and Sprint.

    I'd like to see how you arrived to the conclusion of "just bad". Show your work.

    Mono can slaughter teammates without warning, has a huge energy cost (40 out of a pool of 200), and has a rather large cooldown. If I'm going to nerf anything, it will be the cooldown or the energy cost. I, along with many others, would prefer that Mono be a high-impact skill like it was in Aftermath.

    FF is gonna be 100% all day every day. Except maybe in Recruit. I don't know, I haven't hammered out the details of that yet.

    That would be funny, but no. Like the description says:
    It only buffs the next attack or ability and then is discarded. It's a one-time deal.

    Not exactly everybody - there are a lot of people who are not posting in this thread (who I am glaring at, because they said they would) who are very pleased with the new Mono. That said, Aimed Shot is faster and easier on the Marksman's energy whereas Mono is the exact opposite. If I'm going to nerf anything, like I told Ability earlier in the post, it will be the cooldown or the energy cost.

    In higher difficulties (somewhat similar to the current state of balance in NOTD) OSOK will become much more valuable as enemy health values climb and more specialized enemies start hitting the field. Trust me, non-boss enemies will be sufficiently scary to warrant the use of focus fire.

    Aimed Shot/OSOK is the faster and easier and safer option, so... I don't really mind Monofilament having a larger impact.

    Correct. People begged me to put the Crowbar Mobcon back, so I did. Kinda. Honestly, there are a lot of reasons that I did it, mostly being me getting really tired of seeing the SubMM "Strategy" of Quick Aim + Master of Subtlety + Stealth + Stinger.
  10. nex_

    nex_ Member

    What was fine is, when people played a mm with mono, the other player let him the space to do that, and he was using it with caution. Actually the people dont want mono because they rely on a tank, they could rely on mono too. Whatever, the brainless option is favoured.

    Btw, the new T3 mono gonna be harder to use if its a 'cone'. Among other counterpart.
    Ambush = EMBUSCADE
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    The classes of NOTD 2 are designed to provide teams with a wide variety of compositions. If they want a tank, they can focus on classes that don't have a bunch of friendly fire damage. If they don't want a tank, they can rely on positioning and DPS everything to death. It really doesn't matter to me what they decide to make their metagame, I'm just giving them as many tools as I can.

    Yep! Heartbreaker is gonna be scary as hell, but totally worth using.
  12. squish

    squish Well-Known Member


    Ha. I shouldn't even have to show my work to prove it to you - but okay. Let's assume level 9 marksman. 3 mono 1 aimed shot 2 efficiency and 2 ruthlessness with heartbreaker.

    Not only do you stun everything because fuck you that's why, but with a 5 second cooldown, you effectively chainstun everything in place. Let's say... 20 agrons at 2k hp (not uncommon) in a line, or in a tightly packed group (Also not uncommon). You fire heartbreaker for 35 energy, stun them all for 3 seconds, and you didn't see the stalker for 600 hp wander in (this isn't even taking into account that silly hp damage) and now you have +40% damage.

    Heartbreaker these agrons again and they're all dead. Why? Because 900 + 40% out of your (Before +1.5 HP% damage) 2,000 HP, and I hit your stalker friend by accident. All for a tasty 70 energy.

    Who gives a fuck if OSOK can kill them all in one go a piece when it's 20 energy a cast. 20 * 20 = 400 energy. 20 casts OSOK vs 2 mono. I think I've just proven my point.

    I also think you don't want the real, more scary numbers that you'd shit the bed with - but I'll give them to you.

    277,000 HP queen (Go with it)

    900 + 360 (40%) + 4155 (1.5% HP)
    That alone is 5,415 damage. It'd take OSOK 3 casts to get anywhere near close to that. 35 energy vs 60 and the damage STILL isn't equal. Ruthlessness just makes it sillier.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  13. AlbertW[RCDF

    AlbertW[RCDF New Member

    I've read every single post. This marksman is good, being myself a player who only plays Marksman since SCII NOTD and used to dedicate about 100-200 games as DM in NOTD:Aftermath.

    I think everyone's overreacting here, maybe cause you never played NOTD: Aftermath (which clearly is the basis for the current Mono) or you're just a baby, identify yourself with either or (I bet 99.9% will with the first).

    The Monofilament Cartridge is en essence the base of its corresponding Skill Tree, it's going to provide the most mechanics. The only difference between NOTDII's Mono and NOTD's Mono is damage. I guess you're very concerned about team killing?
    People, in NOTD:Aftermath mono dealt up to 4000 damage (if I don't misrecall, might be less or even more) with a considerable range of reach and Marksmen used mono between a marine-size gap in middle of a 20 units convoy in order to slaughter enemies. If people in Warcraft III, an older game and with out-dated hardware could do it, in far the best Team Zombie Survival map, why the hell can't you in god damn Starcraft II?

    I honestly think you should all consider this fact in particular, marksmen in NOTD:Aftermath used to mono dealing thousands of damage in close gaps, very close to team killing while zombie hordes generated a FUBAR situation out of nowhere, it had a 5 seconds stun with a 5 seconds cool down for a 20 mana cost with a 175 mana DM. That means you could strike 8 monos in 40 seconds. If each shot dealt 4000 damage as I think so at Level 5, that means 40,000 damage in 40 seconds, which is like 400 dps.

    The mono from NOTDII deals only 900 damage at maximum level... like... seriously? Do the math, please, doesn't even go over 100dps (without counting the complementary skills, of course)

    If you're all so worried about having an OP Class, I'd rather nerf some other than this current Marksman set-up.

    Kithrixx, your Marksman looks good to me, probably the AM community (who love difficulty in particular) would agree with me and you.
    Keep it up.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  14. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    Wrong. Level 8 MM with 3 mono and 2 Efficiency means 900 damage every 5 seconds. Damn near 200 dps just by one skill if the timings are perfect. BUT that's not taking into account the fact you hit everything in a straight line with minimal effort. Every enemy you hit with every mono drives your DPS up exponentially on a character basis. ...That's not even factoring ruthlessness which is free +40% if god forbid you kill something.
  15. AlbertW[RCDF

    AlbertW[RCDF New Member

    You can simply cap the energy the marksman posses to a low amount and make the use of monofilament cartridge more tactical if what worries you is an OP Skill.
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Wow. Your math is really off.

    Aimed Shot/OSOK has an energy cost of 15 and a cooldown of 10, which is reduced to 0 with Level 2 Efficiency.
    Monofilament/Heartbreaker has an energy cost of 40 and a cooldown of 25, which is reduced to 15 with Level 2 Efficiency.

    I don't know where you got those numbers from, but uh... yeah. You should probably calm down and do your math again.
  17. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    I got the numbers from your post.

    TIER 3
    Ability Name:
    Headhunter
    Ability Description:
    Some Marksmen become masters of “one shot one kill,” making it almost impossible to escape death by their hands once they have their targets in sight.

    Level 1: Level 3 Aimed Shot becomes One Shot One Kill, adding an additional level of damage and instantly killing non-boss enemies.

    “Heads are fragile, y’know? So aim for them. Saves ammo and time.”
    Ability Button Description/Tooltip:
    After a short aiming period, instantly kills target non-boss enemy and deals [damage] to bosses.
    Ability Cost: 20
    Ability Cooldown: 15

    Ability Filters: Non-allied, non-structure
    Ability Range: 20
    Effect:
    Replaces Aimed Shot with One Shot One Kill.
    Marksman Rifle: After a 1.5 second delay, deals 800 damage to a single target.
    AM Rifle: After a 1.5 second delay, deals 1600 damage to a single target.
    Ability is not available if either weapon is not equipped. Marksman Rifle OSOK consumes 1 round, AM Rifle OSOK consumes 2 rounds.
    Button Location: Main
    Hotkey: W

    Ability Name: Heartbreaker
    Ability Description:
    “Heartbreaker” cartridges sport monofilament ribbons rather than strands, providing more erratic movement and a higher damage potential than their thinner cousins. While dangerous, they are undeniably effective.

    Level 1: Level 3 Monofilament Cartridge becomes Heartbreaker Cartridge, upgrading the area of effect and adding bonus damage equal to 1.5% of the target’s current health.

    “As if murder-string wasn’t scary enough, now we’ve got murder ribbons. What’s next, murder wrapping paper?”
    Ability Button Description/Tooltip:
    Deals 900 damage and 1.5% of current health to all units in a 20° cone and stuns them for 3 seconds.

    Monofilaments can damage and kill allied units.
    Ability Cost: 35
    Ability Cooldown: 15

    Ability Filters: Any
    Ability Range: 10
    Effect:
    See Button Description. Double note that Heartbreaker hits air, whereas Mono does not. Ability is not available if the Marksman Rifle or AM Rifle is not equipped.
    Button Location: Main
    Hotkey: Q
  18. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Oh. In which case, that's my fault for doing bad editing. I was wondering where the hell those numbers came from. They're supposed to be identical to their non-T3 versions. Sorry about that!
  19. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    It happens. Even still - OSOK is a joke compared to Heartbreaker. The energy cost difference is still obscene.
  20. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    It's also strictly safe, whereas Mono is not. Regardles, as I've told several others: if Monofilament/Heartbreaker turns out to be way more powerful than I originally intended, I will adjust the cooldown and/or the energy cost.

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