Discussion in 'NOTD 2 Discussion' started by SEEKRIT AGENT OTIS!!!, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. nex_

    nex_ Member

    • Insulting other members is a bad thing to do.
    How infinite exp define the game ? explain me cause I'm desesperate. No in fact, dont.

    1. exp pool has an impact on game difficulty, pool growing forever means unpossible game balance, which means bad game.
    2. keep your 2c moral to yourself.
    3. Its an arg like any other arg.

    Hey that guy got cancer. Sure thats because he's evil.
    Hey that guy is gay. Ok kick him.
    Hey I dont like him. Lets steal what his got.
    Big news : The world isn't a fair world. People can be dumb, doesnt mean you have to be too.

    my answer to your disgression will be short :
    Since when bank reflect skill ?
    picturing it : does your $ account reflect your hard work ? no relation
    re-picturing : you can work hard ever and still be poor, or you can win lottery
    You want to make a relation ? good luck with that. The world isn't a fair world.
    Skill is evaluated by constant judgement and varies according to situation, how could it be reflected by digits. Feel free to think you got what you deserve in terms of digit and I dont, digits arent reality.

    If I do this, this is because I got the habits to not save everything (notd-am), in order to have a game difficulty balance successfully capped to what I think was learning/similar to previous learnings. I have no reason to include ragequit pub, tk, fail teamplay etc., & in a way massive grind.

    In notd-am I mossed down from 240K to 40k because it was just accumulated grinding exp. And I changed my objective aiming medals (40k was a medal prerequite), then I saved again until 80k (do class) and then I saved only moh game, because there was a system removing medal points for unsuccessfull games.

    I know this is different but habits are habits, and the experience game balance is a reality.

    Topic change.

    I dont think its possible to control AI cause it requires an order system with various option. Available input system is text/"skillbutton" and there is the prerogative player rank system problem, who gives order.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2014
  2. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    Only that in sc2 notd, your xp and 'squad xp' have a total of 0 impact on game difficulty. Only moment when xp has a saying is being below 500xp forces recruit.

    What defines difficulty is squad rating and to an extent number of players.
  3. TheWolf
    • Donator

    TheWolf Surgeon of Death

    And if you paly with people that would votekick you for having cancer you definetly play with the wrong guys. Ive never seen anyone do sth like that.
    For any serious game, you need to have done some real shit to get vked (or just been a douche in general). And i would like to see a penalty for that.
    Big news: you can decide NOT to play with said dumb ppl if you encounter them.
    Not wanting the option because of what some idiot might do in a pub with it, is not a good reason. Otherwise lets remove all tking effects from the game before some idiot tks me! (or maybe you are afraid people will vk you for your behavior?)
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  4. nex_

    nex_ Member

    oh ! My mistake then, this was an assumption based on any notd games I had test. Nvm then, well could helps balance if this was the case thought..

    Well that said .. this page might be obsolete.
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  5. TheWolf
    • Donator

    TheWolf Surgeon of Death

    That page probably refers to the fact that you need a certain amount of xp to unlock the higher campaigns and classes.
  6. nex_

    nex_ Member

    Dont know but seems experience one has been erased.

    Just saying getting votekicked should not remove xp/rates whatever. Not playing is kinda the strongest thing u could do.
    I just support the request asked upthere. Because else it could lead to abuse, that's all.
  7. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    in notd 2 the players should be able to see how much shield armor the marine has like the hit point armor display
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  8. Commlink
    • Development Team
    • Modeler

    Commlink Programmer/Asset Designer

    Wireframes around marines will have the protoss outer blue glow to indicate shields are on (growing dimmer as it takes damage).
    Marines will have the Shield impact effects visually when attacked while a shield is up.

    Not sure currently if anything will be used in the actual shield slot for images (stats wise) kith would know better. Any who thought i would at least let you know about those aspects we are implementing.
  9. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    A response for nex_ in spoilers.
    Show Spoiler

    Don't write something vague. Clarify what you mean by "How does infinite exp define the game" because define is a pretty crucial component. The amount of EXP that can be earned in the game is infinite; there is no hard cap on the total EXP that will be distributed to all of the players. Besides, the EXP distributed is controlled by how much the developers allow you to earn.

    It doesn't, unless you mean for game mode options.
    What "2c" moral?

    You made an argument to justify something that only occurs because there isn't any way for the developer to control it. It would be one thing if the developers had a decision on whether or not save data should be server-side or local, but that isn't the case here. It was something that happened due to the lack of control. It was not an intended aspect of the game; nothing in the game endorses rolling back. The only reason why back-ups are not an issue is due to the fact that the unreliability of computers is an acknowledged fact; that your hard-drive may crash and you may lose your data as a result. Consequentially, there is no harm in creating back-ups so that you can avoid losing all of your EXP. A back-up and a roll-back are two different things.

    You're also quite the pretentious boy. Do note, that statement can be reflected in its entirety back at you. You're afraid to lose control of your bank file and consequentially be unable to delete your mistakes.

    Somehow, you need to not piss off 3/8 of your team. You apparently missed the word "logical." I'm kind enough to assume that a group of 3 people don't make it their sole purpose to enter games and vote kick their entire team out. If people being dumb annoys you, then maybe you should avoid said people or simply avoid people in general.

    Cancer because evil: A stupid simplification. Everybody will eventually get cancer provided they live long enough, but certain actions and events can increase the likelihood of getting cancer. Maybe you got cancer because you showered in a chemical cocktail or decided to stay in the sun too long. Either way, some action of yours lead to cancer. Cause and Effect do play a role in your life, regardless of whether you like it or not with the obvious fact that you are not able to control all of the events that happen.

    Sure people can be provincial and stupid, but looking at people in such a manner will only lead to them acting in such a manner. Just because people can be dumb, doesn't mean you need to join them either. You're still leaving dumb people in charge of kicking.

    Before asking for the removal of the rating penalty, I'd rather ask for an increase in the amount of people required for a kick to 4/7 people (the 7 people who are not being kicked; (Players - 1) / 2 round up). I would be inclined to see a similar system for -karmabite as well (3/7 people voting yes to a karmabite; excludes the TKed). I don't see any good reason for why half of the team would be so irrational.

    You're trying to oversimplify a saving/bank account (and wealth in general) and you're making a bad analogy while you're doing that. As far as I am aware, there is no "lottery" in NOTD that'll influence your Bank's state. At the same time, there is no inheritance of $100,000,000 from your great uncle Jim. Everybody starts from the same place: 0 EXP, 1500 Rating, 1500 Karma, 0 Credits. Make a better analogy because a saving/bank account and money in general, falls apart as an analogy. NOTD does not have any potent and effectively random influences that will heavily steer you in one direction or another (no lottery). Everybody starts from the same point (no inheritance money or money you obtained from other sources). Everybody gains their status through the same method, playing the game. Nobody can give someone else EXP, Credits, Rating, or Karma.

    Skill can be reflected in digits. Those digits are designed to provide an estimation of your skill. The amount of skill you have can be reflected in the amount of money you have (though it won't entirely be reflected and the opposite does not hold true). If you're skillful, you could acquire wealth in a faster manner (being paid more for work, investing smartly) and at the same time save wealth. As long as the skill is present, it will be able to be reflected. Hard work cannot always emulate talent and skill.

    Your bank / save file is implied to reflect what you've done. Mainly because the concept is to save progress that you have made. In a game such as NOTD, such a thing as regression also exists, and that is also saved as both progression and regression reflect your skill.
    The Bank stores 4 indicators:
    EXP (How long you have played and an obsolete measure of skill due to the passage of time)
    Average EXP (reflects how far you get per game on average because the farther you get in a game, the more experience you get. To a certain extent, a measure of skill)
    Rating (How often/rarely you get hit / die; a measure of skill rendered obsolete due to bank reloading; the sole influence on difficulty aside from game mode and player count)
    Karma (How often/rarely you TK people; a measure of sportsmanship that is also rendered obsolete not only due to the lack of use and impact but also because of bank reloading)

    It may seem strange, but those are supposed to reflect your skill and sportsmanship. Part of the reason why those who use localvoid banks are banned - none of their effort or skill is reflected in their bank file. If such people were allowed freely, that would cheapen the value of a person who actually played.

    In essence, the entire point of those numbers is to provide a reference point for where your skill is. Those Rage quits and team kills and failures in team play are part of your identity as a player - you cannot deny that such events have not occurred for you. But you don't want those failures to affect your bank file for no reason more than the fact that you don't believe they are reflective of your skill, despite having occurred with you in-game. While some games are indeed asinine, such is the way of the world - it isn't going to go so perfectly. How you adapt then makes a difference, whether you can salvage the game or whether you decide to quit at that moment.

    Not entirely sure why you're bringing up NOTD-AM, because NOTD-AM just so happens to not be this NOTD. Your habits are being in control of your save file and only accepting forward progress while ignoring any regression that may have occurred. Your skill is dynamic, and those digits in your save file are intended to reflect the changes in skill to a certain degree. If you have a single bad game, that won't ruin your entire file. It isn't like a single bad game will cause you to permanently be at 1700 rating. NOTD and NOTD-AM have two different structures; a comparison isn't entirely suitable between the two. NOTD2 is supposed to only allow changes to a certain extent. Stats won't sky-rocket dramatically, nor will they drop drastically - they simply change over the course of time as you play.


    Those marines attempt to stay in the average location of the team. If your team splits into four and heads to each corner, the Mini-marines will congregate in the midpoint of the entire team, which would be the center of the map.

    The issue with AI Routines is two-fold:

    1. Determining who gives the commands

    2. How the commands should affect the mini's and what should be available

    The first is a manifest problem - a person could troll the game by telling the mini's to move through a hoard of enemies, leading to their deaths. How will the commands be given, and how will controls be placed so that what the team wants to have happen, will happen? That makes up the first issue.

    The second issue is again, reflected in how the Mini's should act. If you say "Defend", the mini's should be grouped around with the players in a tight fashion. But if you're near a ledge, one of them may go down the ledge; they would still be near the players, but because of the specific position, they may be in a bad position. Because this is more of a coding-side issue rather than a player and safety issue, I think it would be addressable after the first issue is resolved, though it may be difficult.

    A side-problem in the second issue is how commands will be given.

    But regardless, because of those issues, It is doubtful that AI controls will be implemented until further on, if ever.
  10. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    the shield armor is not the amount of shields left it is the armor of the shields like the armor that xs-4 boosts is the shield armor but in notd it is not visible to the player. the player can only see how much shield the marine has but not the armor of the shield
  11. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    On the current UI there's space for a shield armor display if the kill count is removed, and the kill count is kind of unnecessary anyways. I'm sure it can be put under/above/next to the armor count in the NOTD2 UI.
  12. nex_

    nex_ Member

    @ arturia
    Define sentence is not mine, I was just saying the same thing u did.

    Seems the irony and illustration of the "fair world belief" part hasnt be taking properly. Nvm. Just saying you cant control everythinn, and damn if this was the case nothing could be considered as a game if everything was controled.

    I'm still against the rating penalty. If you kick someone because he acts on a different level of yours (exemple) its for a game setup to not be totally ruined. When this guy isnt kicked for level reason (still exemple) he will play and die, and then rating will be reduced. Its double sentence. Well nvm I dont care about rating, I just care about logic and balance

    I totally agree on the karmabite, to have see one abuse just yesterday.

    There is lottery in notd : players in a cooperative survival game. And the fact some people dont want other players (someone dont want java for ex) for that specific reason is reality.

    Skill is always situationnal... you cant control every situation. Nvm it's a lost cause.
    I disagree with the fact that bank reflect skill or whatever. Give it up :)

    Give a thought at this :
    *** Wouldn't it be better if bank construction reflected "achievement" ? ***
    Trying to make it reflect skill is a lost cause.

    Last edited: May 10, 2014
  13. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    is there a rifle or something that has a picture of the ivax cannon thing because it looked very interesting when I saw the picture in survival on ivax
    there is no other thing that has that picture in the game
  14. nex_

    nex_ Member

    Would it be intersting if as a newcomer, u started like a citizen with a melee weapon fighting vs low zomb and then finding a small handgun and maybe getting rescued by others, in a dedicated 'start' place.
    And if you dont choose your class you end up there too :) maybe in a jail like "elder scroll series".

    I kinda like the p45 part and well it offers a small "find better weapon" challenge , and could offer variation.
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  15. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    but when I am votekicked it is not my playing skills are bad it is because I lag everybody in the game to 0 fps because I always lag in notd so I should not lose status because I can not control when I lag and I lost 500 total rating from being votekicked in the games I played
  16. MissHumpz
    • Event Coordinator
    • Community Leader

    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

    Suggestion: Have you tried fixing your lag?
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  17. ozzy

    ozzy Member

    it is not possible for notd
    in notd I get 0 frames a second but in custom games I get more than 20
    and in notd 2 I do not lag
  18. MissHumpz
    • Event Coordinator
    • Community Leader

    MissHumpz NOTD Staff: Event Coordinator & Amazing Amazer

    Have you tried lowering your graphic settings then?
  19. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    It sounds like the problem is an insufficient CPU. NOTD is very hard on your CPU because of the number of triggers and events firing off at any given time. If that's the case, then nothing short of a new computer can help him.
  20. nex_

    nex_ Member

    I got lag in 2, cause of the mass units, not killed enought. Gpu is out.

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