NOTD 2 Classes: What's next?

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Kith, Feb 1, 2014.

?

Which Tier 2 class would you like to see after Tier 1 classes are completed?

  1. Pathfinder

    6.2%
  2. Squad Leader

    32.3%
  3. Flamethrower

    23.1%
  4. Marksman

    24.6%
  5. Forward Observer

    13.8%
  1. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web


    Like Stereo, I'm neither all for nor all against. What Kith said here, though, is important to remember. Meg and I were helping a friend of mine (and 4 other 0xp players) get acquainted with the game and we both randomed Pathfinder. Meg finished the game at around 1300 kills as Gunslinger and I came in right at 1000 as Luigi. As well as the new players did (0 deaths), Meg and I did carry that game much harder than we should have if we'd randomed two separate classes.
  2. lets go back to the start. I wanted to say that we need the mm as he has a high boss dps that can make encounters which are normal for other classes trivial. I guess this is where we were both lost. I thought we are gonna balance the game based on lets say a combination having crowd control, Boss DPS and a tank which is apparently incorrect, looks like we are gonna balance the game after introducing each and every class. In that case then choose the class that you enjoy most :)
  3. ComradeHX

    ComradeHX Well-Known Member

    I would like to see a remade Flamer.

    Preferrably the dps tree.
  4. Commlink
    • Development Team
    • Modeler

    Commlink Programmer/Asset Designer

    More insight perhaps? something along the lines of what you feel is lacking which ability and why? In which situation did the dps let you down, other classes in that group.
  5. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    Well, off the top of my head.

    * Smite is a rather paradoxical skill. The lower the game difficulty, the weaker it gets. The higher the difficulty the better. But, it is incapable of killing enemies and has always been either very overpowered or severely underpowered on bosses. On a pacing level its always made it unnecessarily hard for the flamer to level. Smite can't get kills and his nature Alpha company isn't very flamer friendly early on, so he'll have almost no opportunity to use his starting weapon.

    * Vengeance. Not a terribly good skill. The stun length and percentage were never rewarding enough to justify the skill.

    * Righteousness is a good skill, but is again very paradoxical in nature. Its only good for getting armor when there's large mobs of enemies. But, when you want armor to tank is during bosses. Said bosses generally have few to no mobs.

    * Shatter is a solid single target skill, in terms of utility it might be flamer's best order skill. It does reasonable damage and has the healing synergy. The problem is flamer's main stun is a random percentage based on when he gets hit.

    * Faith. Again, Paradoxical skill. The last thing a tank class wants to do is lose health. Yet flamer goes around blasting off half his hp willy nilly. This skill has been buffed to kingdom come over the years, but I still don't like it by nature of its very design.

    So in summation. The Order tree may have neat skills, but putting them on a tank class seems backwards. While skill synergy is there, its either difficult to use or not worth worrying about. Mechanically, in NOTD2, if the left tree is to remain fire, thats a very good aoe tree. That means the right tree could be focused on something else like weapon dps, single target damage (it already sorta does that with order), or possibly even a tank class built on buffing the team (like a support-tank).
  6. Eagle 11

    Eagle 11 Well-Known Member

    I on the other hand would rather keep his unique in notd way of getting shit done.
  7. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Both of the Flamethrower's trees are getting an overhaul, don't worry.
  8. ComradeHX

    ComradeHX Well-Known Member

    For one, the dps tree's H-3 igniter is kinda meh(increases range is okay but damage boost is no where near as strong as expected in practice(when I mess around with it; I don't see much difference other than having blue flames...). I think damage needs to be 20/35/50% each level; or simply move to tier 2 with 25/50.
    And frenzy is overall useless/somewhat okay in boss fights since most of time in alpha you will be channeling BURN and won't be able to keep stacks up; and when you do get stacks it's usually when using mm rifle(because any closer = commando with flamethrower already ate the exp) which had bad dpm anyway...and I don't even know how to get 30 stacks with mm rifle without aspd/damage boost to begin with.
    And inferno is only situational; when mobs are hit by it, they are usually dpsed down first...and bosses don't take much damage from it, might as well keep up BURN.

    Another thing is that flamer, by nature using armour-ignoring weapon, isn't that great at dps much like anyone with hmg in Alpha; where bosses(unless recon and engi or something all died) generally have negative armour.

    Out of all that, only BURN! and burst fire has any real use...and burst fire, again, suffers from flamer's low range.

    Many games in Alpha I ended up going tank(even though there is another flamertank) just because of how useless dps tree is...it's basically chasing dead mobs because commando pressed 3/4 buttons. Crowd control? Commando with shotgun... Commando on cd? Flamertank use ulti and stuns everything with massive aoe damage.

    Tank tree is okay to me; need skill to use faith unlike asstank which just facetanks almost everything(except maybe agrons).
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  9. Grevious

    Grevious Member

    Forward Observer definitely. though judging by current votes that's not going to happen too soon (as such I feel bad for the pathfinder xD) I'm anxious to see all the new tweaks to FO, particularly the FS or "arty" tree and the Asgard. I'm hoping peoples mentality of "FO is just spamming shit" will change with the NOTD2 version of the Forward Obs. A question I have is; will CP still be "slot based" or since the characters are tiered will it be more individually based? To be honest the current CP system is off-putting in that someone can get x cp in a class (we will use my 15 cp in the demo/FO/Chem slot as an example in which all of that cp was gained playing FO) that they're actually good at but that doesn't make them good at the others in that slot. What's more, is they could probably have never played any other classes in that slot (as with me and Chem).
  10. Stereo
    • Development Team

    Stereo Paper Boy

    Grevious, they are doing away with the Class Point system. In its place, they putting in a new MOS Point system, which you buy with your very own experience points if I recall correctly. They are permanent and do not decay like Class Points.
  11. Grevious

    Grevious Member

    oh ok nice.
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Alright, so Squad Leader won the race. He'll be the first Tier 2 class available.

    Problem is, I don't know if I want to do the Flamethrower or the Marksman next considering that they're tied. Go bug your friends to vote about it. Alternately, argue about why one would be better than the other - I'll accept a good reason as a vote.
  13. Marcus

    Marcus Member

    Both are good...cant decide:(...but if I had to choose then guess marksman to give more place between tanks(rifleman, medic, assault, recon, demo, squad leader, marksman, flamer,...). But if you can choose any class from tier 2 after you have all tier 1 then this argument wont be relevant anymore. Anyway marksman seems better choice while rating will be low at start(=>units will have low hp).
  14. i prefer the marksman, after all he is (was in NOTD ) one of the major sources of Boss DPS, currently the DPS we have is the assa (generally long term mob DPS IMO unlikely to be considered boss DPS ), rifleman (same deal) and Demo (not really boss DPS eh?) most of those are mob DPS IMO even from NOTD 1 rifleman with his nades and attack speed, assa wielding the HMG and demo with his AOE. Boss DPS in NOTD 1 was mainly mando and mm, that makes me think that mm will be suitable to bring in now and send the Boss health to the roof :)
    Flamer in the other hand is mainly tank and CC and some mob DPS, and although he is very cool and stuff but IMO we already have a good tank (Actually 2) and mob DPS, his coming will be a good addition but not as good as the mm.
    PS: all views here of flamer and mm are based on NOTD 1 and i have no idea of NOTD2
  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yeah, the Marksman is going to be going through some fairly large changes. You can consider them to be growing pains.
  16. DcKing

    DcKing New Member

    I wished the old FO in AM, came back. they could literally break or win yours games.
    Bad phosphorus ensures no escape route for your team.
    Badly timed/Spread FM either wastes ammo, or literally just FM'ed that one scout you sent out earlier.

    FOs should be punished more for making mistakes in my opinion. xD
    then again the game should be punishing for mistakes on Vet Mode.

    The most fun AM games are the ones where, you had to decide to camp the hill and risk being overrun(which used to happen a lot when your FO ran out of ammo/died/or can't hit a single FM in his life xD).
    or...
    Jump and get cripple on the entire team trying to evac the town.

    However all these should only happen in higher Vet modes, as newbie would quit NOTD if they had to face the likes of Poppers, Invi & Bloodraged Etap, their first game into NOTD.

    Just my 2 cents. Loved NOTD for the difficulty & dynamics, but there needs to be a cookie cutter(fun mode) difficulty to attract more players.
  17. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    NOTD 2's Forward Observer is going to be much closer to Aftermath's. At least, Artillery will.
  18. nex_

    nex_ Member

    I would suggest this order of works
    FT
    PF
    MM
    SL
    FO
    Mainly because the fire mechanism is different and need strong thinking, and because the shooting class (ft/pf/mm) need imo to be balanced first (because shooting is the base reference), then you have a decent reference for the support one left (sl/fo), if you do the opposite, I'm affraid you could be missguided a bit.

    punishing is the worst thing to do, it will make people leave.
    By the way limit, are not all around, and more over, they dont piss the current player database, only the children (yeah big link between that way of thinking about frustration and children)...
  19. DcKing

    DcKing New Member

    Wee xD that would be great.
    Tho hopefully with it being standalone, SEA community would be revived. I can't really afford to be awake at wee hours to play on PDT hours and vice versa, I would believe.

    I agree, Punishing is the worst direction to go around to be honest. People will quit/leave.
    Trying to eliminate as much cheese as possible is often best direction to go.
  20. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I should mention that the plans for class limitations have changed since the original pitch in February. For Tier 1, all classes (except for the Rifleman) will be limited to 2 per game. For Tiers 2 and 3, classes will be limited to 1 per game. This will afford players of all skill levels a significant amount of flexibility in their character choice while still requiring some measure of communication to organize a team.

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