New Class: Scientist (WIP)

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Nicarco, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. Nicarco
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    Nicarco Warden

    Well, thought I'd suggest a new class, seeing as there's a new forum.
    This is a concept class, but hopefully, if it gets balanced, I hope it can be implemented (doesn't have to be anytime soon though)

    This class is designed to replace the medic class on higher difficulties, as FA medics aren't usually used in higher difficulties, and the only reason medics seemed to be used at all instead of something else is because of surgical laser.
    The first tree is the recovery tree, and it is completely life based (the scientist does not use any energy in the tree at all). On the other hand, the destruction tree is entirely energy based, the scientist does not use life in this tree. The scientist's passive, energy transfer armor, benefits both sides depending on what it is set to, but the scientist is unable to use armor, therefore it is more open to attack.

    Energy transfer armor: The Scientist has increased health regeneration outside of battle. This can be changed to having increased energy regeneration outside of battle. Battle represents any situation in which the scientist is firing his weapon or being hit. The scientist is unable to wear any other types of armor. Regen rate is +0.6 per second.

    Tree 1: Recovery

    Tier 1:

    Blood Transfusion

    The scientist links up with the target ally, transfusing blood between himself and the target. The scientist loses hitpoints while the target gains them. Single target toggle. No energy cost. No cooldown.

    Level 1: Transfers 10 hitpoints a second
    Level 2: Transfers 20 hitpoints a second
    Level 3: Transfers 30 hitpoints a second

    Ailment Control

    The scientist uses a few nanites from his suit in order to correct ailments in the target ally, or inflict them upon an enemy. Removes one stack of venom, open wound, or cripple from an ally, or inflicts the same to the enemy. Does not affect bosses.

    Level 1: 30 health cost and 15 second cooldown
    Level 2: 20 health cost and 10 second cooldown
    Level 3: 10 health cost and 5 second cooldown

    Tier 2

    Vampiric Touch

    The scientist enhances his weapons so that they drain life from the targets that he hits based on a percentage of damage dealt to the target. The scientist sacrifices some nanites everytime he fires the weapon. 5 health cost, toggle.

    Level 1: Restores 15% of attack damage per shot
    Level 2: Restores 30% of attack damage per shot

    Resistance (Passive)

    The scientist has grown resistant to the effects of wounds, and is capable of sharing this with allies around him.

    Level 1: Reduces effects of ailments by 30% in 3 radius aura
    Level 2: Reduces effects of ailments by 60% in 6 radius aura

    Tier 3:

    Health Boost

    The scientist has adapted his nanites to extending the life of marines. Restores 150 health to all allies in a 8 radius, and additional life restored this way is temporarily added to the marine's life pool. Effect does not stack. 100 health cost, 40 second cooldown.

    Level 1: Restores 150 health in 8 radius. Extra health is stored as temporary hitpoints and last 15 seconds. This effect does not stack with itself.

    Tree 2: Recharge

    Tier 1:

    Energy Shock

    The scientist releases a large amount of electricity into the target area in 3 radius, stunning units, dealing damage, and slowing them down while they attempt to recover their movement speed. Also weakens the target's armor, causing it to take extra damage from attacks. 20 energy, 5 second cooldown.

    Level 1: 30 damage, 0.5 second stun, 5 second recovery time, -1 armor.
    Level 2: 60 damage, 0.5 second stun, 8 second recovery time, -1 armor.
    Level 3: 90 damage, 0.5 second stun, 10 second recovery time, -2 armor.

    Overcharge (Passive)

    The scientist augments his suit to increase his performance. This passively boosts his attack speed and damage. It also augments the performance of allies around him.

    Level 1: +10% attack speed and damage. 1 radius aura.
    Level 2: +15% attack speed and damage. 2 radius aura.
    Level 3: +20% attack speed and damage. 3 radius aura.

    Tier 2:

    The scientist floods his energy producing batteries, increasing his energy regeneration rate but taking damage over time. This ability automatically stops when the scientist is below 40% health. Toggle.
    Level 1: Restores an extra 2 energy a second. Loses 4 health a second.
    Level 2: Restores an extra 3 energy a second. Loses 5 health a second.

    The scientist charges an enemy with a polarity. Enemies that die with a + polarity shock nearby enemies for damage while enemies that die wtih a - polarity stun nearby enemies. The polarity is determined randomly. 20 energy cost. 10 second cooldown.

    Level 1: 80 damage or 3 second stun.
    Level 2: 120 damage or 5 second stun.

    Tier 3:

    Insanity Shock
    The scientist uses an extremely high voltage current in a 4 radius specifically targetting the creatures' minds, shattering them and giving them a change to become enemies of their own kind for the duration. These creatures spread the effect to other creatures they attack and have a smaller chance of converting them on attack. Damages bosses but do not convert them. Damage stacks up to 3 times. 20 second duration, 40 energy cost, 40 second cooldown.

    Level 1: Deals 30 damage a second, 20% chance to convert. Enemies have a 10% chance to convert other enemies on attack.
  2. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    RE: New Class: Scientist

    Should have seen the old forum. Think people tried to make two (with a third that was cannibalized to help another poster's) scientists right near the end. Both were seen as being poor choices. But I love Concept Class ideas. Wanna see where you go with it.

    Just for reference, the last Scientist Classes you had...

    My Unpublished idea that got cannibalized:

    Had a Biology tree where he had a Collection Samples talent for the tree, worked like Concentration for his abilities (He gained samples by getting kills).

    And had a Mechanics tree which had an oddball collection of abilities I never liked.

    The published idea that it helped with:

    Originally it had a close combat DPS tree based off using the Prosthetic limbs on the Egon Stetmann model.

    And it had a Physics tree with basically was all the best abilities of both Recon Trees in one location. (Team Cloaking, Energy and HP regen auras, slows, and a massive DPS ultimate)

    Then there was the Cyberneticist I posted:

    One tree was about implanting a limited number of Cybernetic Augments on marines. You only could use six at a time. Augments had a lot of weird abilities like plus vision and crit percentage. And an ultimate that basically Chrono Boosted a marine (25% reduced cool downs and 10% move speed buff).

    Other tree was an Artificial Life tree, which had a lot of specialized units that the Cyberneticist could build. Missile launching drones, spellcasting defensive unit, DPS assistance, melee tankery. And it's ultimate was a "Clone" ability that could copy any one unit of his (Bypassing the 1 only limit on them) and give them the ability to level up for increased Energy, shields, HP, and damage.
  3. Kage

    Kage Member

    RE: New Class: Scientist

    Regarding the stats,here's a few things to consider:

    Weight Category(Light,Medium,Heavy):This will affect the effect of weight on the class.
    HP/Shields:This depends on the role of the class.Tankers generally have more HP and DPS/Support have lower HP.Also,it depends whether the class has to be on the front line or not.
    The weight category also can help determine(e.g. Heavy has the most HP,Medium has average HP,Light has lowest HP)
    HP Armor and Shield Armor:Generally most non-tank classes have low armor.
    Energy:Determined by role also.This can also be used as a counter-balance for skills.Skills can be affected by the energy pool.(Consider this:OSOK costs 20 energy.A MM has 200 energy.He can fire off 10,not counting energy regeneration.If his energy pool is reduced to 150,his OSOK is somewhat indirectly nerfed)
    Movespeed:Use the Weight category as a guideline.
    Inventory Slots:Weight category determines this most of the time.
    Modification Slots:Generally DPS classes get 3 while others get 2.
  4. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    RE: New Class: Scientist

    Also keep in mind Regeneration Rates in your calculations.

    The Marksman has a huge energy pool yet a low regen, which is it's balancing factor and turns the marksman from a DPS class into a Spike class. Compared to the Rifleman which has half the energy, but a huge regen, and can in fact use Bloodlust constantly and still be gaining energy. And there are little balance points like the Recon's cloak can be used almost indefinitely with Refresher being spammed constantly. But only in that situation.
  5. Nicarco
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    Nicarco Warden

    Many updates, a new tree added (Yay!) and working on stats at the moment.
    Please tell me what you think of the concept.
  6. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    - Need to know what you plan to replace with it (If you wish for it to even have a chance of being implemented. If not, and its purely imagination fun, then never mind).

    I would recommend not trying to pursue a disease-based tree, since the only disease really present in NOTD would be Zombification, and Venom (Vomit Cam and Migraines not included). Cripple is a condition where (a) Leg Bone(s) is (are) damaged / fractured, while Open Wounds can be explained as a Cut that hasn't been sealed / healed. Madness is a in your head thing. Blind, I have no idea how to explain it, except Something gets in the Eyes, Blocks the Windshield, or something is released that obstructs your sight.

    From a logic perspective, Open Wounds should Increase the chance of getting Venom, since Infections are likely to occur at an Open Wound unless treated, and Open Wounds should be much more common, since you get torn at and whatnot, but this is a game, Logic Doesn't apply too well.

    Really, the most major problem with the most concept classes has been originality, and not imitating / mirroring other classes skills. Lore can come afterwards, but Logic does need to be employed to an extent. (I understand Blind & Venom from exhaust, not to sure about Open Wounds, though I guess Chemical Burns could cause those as well)
  7. Nicarco
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    Nicarco Warden

    Are there other problems besides logic? Because I can fix those easily.
  8. Ramses II
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    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Haven't gotten a chance to look at the trees very in-depth, but you do need to figure out who it's going to replace and in which storyline so that that character's job is fulfilled (albeit in a different manner). Technician was specifically designed to replace Bob, Pathfinder was specifically designed to replace Combat Engineer, and Chemical Experts was specifically designed to replace demolitions. The other concept classes that were being thrown around in late Dec. early Jan. also had specific classes and storylines (recon in apollo, rifleman in apollo and alpha, can't remember the rest).
  9. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    By the way, Blind is explained in game as having Goop that slimes over a marine's visors and such. Least in terms of Blindlings, which is about the only thing that gives marines Blindness. Erebos's blindness could be something else, and maybe a result of his psychic powers?

    Just adding in.
  10. Nicarco
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    Nicarco Warden

    Ok, in that case, what do you think about a class replacing medic? I just think that FA medic is too weak in other companies, but at the same time sl is really necessary.
  11. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Well, my thoughts on that:

    As a medic replacement this is an odd duck. True, straight Field Aid healing isn't necessarily used outside of Easy Company games, so there is a place to work for it. The problem being that condition management is only really on the second tier and is very subpar. Particularly since in order to really use it the Scientist would need a high HP pool or high HP Regen rate.

    The Syringe Drone thing is... overly complex for very little benefit. I can see what you are going for here. Just the way that it's typed up makes me imagine some Rube Goldberg Machine type process.

    You have what is effectively a pure copy of Nanohaste as the tier one. Even though it's designed to replace the Medic, try to avoid doing things the same way. Compare to say, the Assault/Flamethrower/Technician tanking. The Assault does it with straight armor buffs, and taunts and stuns to control aggro. The Flamethrower does it through chaining skills for maximum armor and clearing mobs. The Technician does it through creating a huge amount of HP and a high healing rate.

    So try to avoid purely copying or recreating a particular talent or method. Try to find a new way to accomplish the same general role.
  12. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    ^ Core (Starter) Classes (especially the Medic) shouldn't be Replaced (Meh, Assault/Flamer/Techie had to, more over for Campaign Balance Reasons & Variety). If this is intended to replace the medic, Its going to need a few more methods to heal / cure problems. I believe in most other Companies, Medic ends up just being SL + Nano tree though.

    EDIT: Everyone keeps breaking the thingy I was gonna just point at :/
  13. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    That's the other thing. People also can think the first two classes are sacred and cannot be touched. I ran through that gauntlet when I suggested my Ranger replace the Rifleman in Alpha Company... which is funny because pretty much universally any team will tell you the Rifleman is nigh worthless in Alpha Company. At least at the time.
  14. Nicarco
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    Nicarco Warden

    Does this mean you support my idea?[hr]
    Oh, I haven't updated it yet. It wasn't meant to replace the medic at that point, so yeah.

    I will update it to replace the medic later today if I have time.
  15. HDD
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    HDD Well-Known Member

    Replacing the medic..It could vary from many situations that it remain useful, It just need "improvisation"... I've seen Nano Medic often taking over instead of using FA. Its not the fact its weak, Its a Support Class which the classes can't provide the DPS that the team expect. But the Nano Medic giving its all purpose to this and the FA is only good for using Surgical Laser. Still the Nano shield/Weave and Restoration are always welcome due to the fact that it maintain many players alive at once
    There is many possibility to beat the game, its just "Updating" these good old ways that player will take some times to get used to or simply not agree.

    Now what i think on this work. I like the originality to have a sort of "Field Scientist" , but i think Both Trees need reworks. They have to "Synergize". But now they just a little bit too much independent from each other

    Tree 1 is like you are yourself the Experimental Subject. Whitout a FA Medic you won't live long(Unless its a "Tanking" Class). Get hit by some parasites, get a awesome damage boost (YES) but your health and your movespeed will betray you. I don't like Disease bomb, only yourself will benefit from it and if it dare to hurt allies, things will turn bad. Only this Tree will Synergize whit its side and not whit Tree 2

    Tree 2. Personnaly i find it myself confusing, Improved Genetic Boost how long it will last? Robotic Syringe, i don't get its concept, Genetic Modification i don't like the trolling % of damaging allies. The Perfect Mutation, All i will say its "Happy Tanking Everyone"
  16. Nicarco
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    Nicarco Warden

    Yes, I will change it. Just wait a few minutes.
  17. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    I always support concept class ideas. Then again I've probably cooked up more than most people myself.
  18. Nicarco
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    Nicarco Warden

    Complete overhaul so that it can now replace medic.
    Look through it and tell me what you think.
  19. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    Replacing the Medic where exactly sir? :)

    An evaluation of the proposed class can only be done if the niche it's supposed to fill is given.

    For example, the medic in its current incarnation can fill several possible roles depending on the following factors

    1. Storyline
    2. Difficulty level of each storyline
    3. Which playstyle the team uses.
    and Survival which I think has yet to develop a stable formula
    (do correct me if I'm wrong) :)

    EC Recruitmode / (Pub)
    for me, has the most lenient requirements and (if only 1 medic is available) can have either one of the two trees.

    A medic can either play purely Field Aid and become the safety net for a mostly newbie team who have yet to develop the "must not get hit" mindset


    can play as a purely Nano/DPS medic in a recruit mode game with mostly experienced players in it as you can expect most of the players to not take many hits (which are the source of ailments) and the abundance of medkits are enough to keep everyone well enough away from death.


    In a Hardened or even Nightmare game with a "generic NA team" composition however,
    the requirements become more in favor of the FA but not because more healing is required for the team as most would be inclined to think.

    The FA's role is only to keep both tanks in working order and should be the only two players receiving attention from the Medic; the two tanks being the AssTank and the FortDemo who will be receiving Weave and NanoShield respectively.


    Alpha and Apollo
    on the other hand (in NA at least) favor the NanoMedic with 1 SL these days as the whole team is expected not to take hits that would require true healing and taking damage that are easily managed by a MotMTech's nanites or SurvRecon's supply station (or both if the team takes both).


    Also, changes to Surgical Laser removing multiple stacks of ailments at higher talent levels have time and again been proposed by newbies and well known veterans alike. At all times, these requests/suggestions have been ignored which has led me to think that the Developers intended for status ailments / debuffs to be difficult to remove in multiple stacks and keep it that way

    perhaps as a means to keep enemy attacks more threatening than mere damage sources and promote the mentality of "MOAR MICRO!!!"

    I hope this helps :D

    Keep on truckin sir!
  20. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    My thoughts in detail...

    Energy transfer armor: Needs some hard numbers. However I don't think the class really NEEDS this ability. A lot of the Tech's power and OPness comes from the Energy Regen of it's Cockpit system, and I think that should be a warning that you should heed.

    Tree 1: Recovery

    Tier 1:

    Blood Transfusion

    I'd remove the 30% limitation on this to turn it off. Honestly all it is, is a Newbie Insurance limiter. Good if you replace this in Easy Company, but otherwise shouldn't need it. I would actually like to see the health on a straight even trade progression instead. Limits the ability for two of this class to create some perpetual health machine.


    As Mr. Lyanden said, The Man and Co. seem to hate the idea of mass status clearing. I know back in the day if you nanoweaved a marine then hit them with a Surgical Laser it would clear multiple open wounds, but I believe they killed that trick off so you don't have much precedence. A better option would perhaps have this as a reversal of the idea you currently have. So something like "Costs 40 HP, removes one ailment, for every ailment on the target you gain 1/2/3 HP and the cool down is reduced by 1/2/3 seconds."

    Tier 2

    Vampiric Touch (Passive)

    Percentage based on what, your HP max, weapon damage? The enemy's HP max? Powerful enough that I would make it a toggle ability rather than a passive. Go with the Blackout style that costs HP per shot to fit in with the tree and the mechanic. That also makes it so the Scientist has to use proper weapon micro if you base the HP gain off weapon damage. So say it costs 4 HP per shot, you gain 5% of the damage inflicted as Health. It would kick your ass if you were some newbie using a Gauss Rifle on the Zombie Queen, for example, but would be a huge net gain if you were using the M5 Pulse rifle.

    Regeneration Beacon

    Natural regeneration rates are actually pretty low for the most part. So something that boosts regen isn't all that handy. That's why the current Tech is more powerful than the old Bob, as Bob's skill gave up to triple HP regen rate and just didn't do as much as the Tech Aura giving a flat 3. Instead of Condition Suppression like you wanted I think a better option would be reducing Condition Duration by 25/50%. Maybe give it a radius 4 aura that does 2/4 HP a second. Cool Down should be about double the duration.

    Tier 3:

    Immortality Protocol

    Actually the way you listed Damage Reduction is how the NOTD handles damage reduction, as I recall. This is why you can one shot Athena with a Shiva even when she's immortal. The game deals enough damage to kill her, then tries to recover all the life lost, but she's already dead so GG no Re.

    I don't really like this for a tier three. Seems kind of out of place with the tree. And could cause problems with multiple Scientists. Two of them casting it at the same time makes for truly immortal marines for 10 seconds. I almost makes me want to see an 8 Scientist Run just to see how OP abilities like this could get.

    Tree 2: Destruction

    Tier 1:

    Energy Shock

    It has a strange place as being stuck between Countermeasures and Mindblast. Both are more effective in their own way. Nothing really wrong with it but I think you could also get away with something like a -1 Armor on it.

    Offense Boost

    Talking about 120 health lost on the tier three version. Most damage classes that would want to use this would balk at that much damage being taken. And it has the potential to be used for serious asshat TKing. Particularly since this replaces the Medic and you won't necessarily have a bulk healer I'm leery about this skill and can't imagine it would be used. I don't know how you could really balance the numbers out so it's not either going to be so horrible that I can't imagine it getting used, or being just a weaker version of Nanohaste. Might be worth thinking about replacing this. For Command Card issues you will need another passive and this is a good candidate for putting a passive slot in.

    Tier 2:

    Numbers would need to be crunched. Energy gain is very powerful as anyone would tell you. I'd watch it as something like 6 energy per second is equatable to a Rifleman with three Personal Arc Reactors standing on a level 2 Supply Station.

    Bio Bomb

    Volitile Injection, but Better. This is something you might want to avoid. As it stands this is strictly better than Volitile Injection, and I'm sure most people will tell you VI is already pretty damned good. It's a neat concept, replacing the armor reduction with a slow and giving it chain reactions. I would like to see something less... biological since the rest of this tree is more about pure energy manipulation. Make it hold better thematically. I have a weird idea here. Something like an Energy Overload. Bombards the mind and body with energy that overwhelms a target. Gives it Damage over Time like More DoTs!, has a chance to turn an enemy into an ally, and attacks by said ally have a percentage chance to spread the effect to their target. But that might be so good that it should be tier three.

    Tier 3:


    Basically suffers from being More DoTs! mark two. It's not interesting because it does almost the same thing, but replaces the general slowing effect with a series of small stuns instead.... but in the end the stuns have nearly the same effect anyway. I think if you are aiming for a replacement for the Nanotech Tree, you have to get a bit more creative than that and really put a twist on it. Not sure what to do. You could take my suggestion for replacing the Biobomb and put it here. Then you have to come up with a tier 2 instead, which I honestly find a bit easier to do.

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