New Class Discussion

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Blaze, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. Blaze

    Blaze New Member

    I have an idea for a new class
    Its a heavy weapons class like the demo with a difference that he comes with more explosive based weapons like
    T1 skills would be l3 mastery adds damage and a chance to save ammo per shot
    T2 skills would be a weaker stinger ability with a smaller splash and like a 30 sec cd
    T3 skill would be to go on a blood rage with the weaker stinger ability and fire it like crazy in a 12 radius of your choice at with 20 shots in 5 seconds but they all deal 50% damage and stun for .5 secs


    This a good idea
  2. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    There are already enough classes; adding a new one accomplishes nothing except a little novelty for a few days.

    Not to mention how much planning went into those two classes.
  3. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    This

    +1

    Thus far, I've come to the same conclusion Niteshade had when he still stalked these lands,
    that there should be a focus on fixing what's broken

    and only AFTER that should come the implementation of the planned changes.

    Otherwise NOTD will become even more so, a bug infested nightmare of a game as new content usually produces even more bugs.

    Adding a whole new class altogether would just compound on the current problems we're facing.
  4. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    Also, and this seems to be hard to get across to gamers today. This is not an MMO, new content of any kind will not be added on any basis really. This game is more or less done, a few classes need rewroks, and maybe a couple bosses need better mechanics, but beyond that, there is very little to add. At this point, the focus should be on making what we have work well and reliably, not adding more shiny stuff that breaks whenever someone glances at it.

    Right now ther is a massive bug list to be taken care of. Mind you, most of these bugs are edge cases, or require really specific circumstances to occur. None the less, I would rather prefer at this point bugs be fixes and tweaks be made, nothing wholesale being altered or added.

    TL;DR We are not paying anything for this, this is more or less done, polish is more important long term, be patient.
  5. Tink

    Tink New Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    There is a boss-battle mode to add that kith seemed to be at least thinking about.
    But we should definitely be trying to take care of the bug list before that happens.

    The only class related I'd love to see is Bob being playable via randoming at 10k xp/1700 rating. never got to play with him while he was around.
  6. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    The Technician is pretty much a modified Bob that didn't break and is actually useful.
  7. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    I'll be pitching it, but it's probably going to be saved until NOTD2 (whenever that happens). It'd be heavily changing Survival, and after looking at it for a while, that... isn't really necessary.
  8. Blaze

    Blaze New Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    Sorry i ment to say after all the fixes and bug work have been worked thru :/
  9. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    There still isn't any purpose in adding a new class.
  10. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    I'd be all for it if he provided a reason as to why it should be added and what class it should replace in what storyline (which is no small feat to figure out). The "tank" and "demo" slots are untouchable, as they already have 3 variants across the 3 storylines. Rifleman and Medic are untouchable because... well, they're the Rifleman and the Medic. There will be a riot if the Marksman or the Recon get replaced, so no go there.

    Really, the only choices for replacement are the Engineer or the Commando in either EC or AC, and even then suggesting that those get replaced really isn't that good of an idea. The Commando just got reworked to give him a clear and defined role in Alpha as DELTA, and Opsmando is the king of EC and is an integral part of a balanced team.

    The Engineer... well, as much as I dislike the Engineer, I really suggest that you not say he be the one to be replaced. The community backlash I experienced from the Pathfinder was... significant, and that was only one storyline. I'm sure suggesting that the Engineer be replaced in either AC or EC would produce quite the spectacle that would be infinitely amusing to watch, but I wouldn't if you want to retain any measure of popularity with roughly a third of NOTD's playerbase.

    So while it's not a flat "no", it's one hell of a tall order. I don't expect you to be able to meet it, but you sure are welcome to try.
  11. Ghostel

    Ghostel New Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    Why not just "ADD" new class then instead of "REPLACING" old one? Survival mode UI of "Choose your class" window pretty mush demonstrates that adding additional hero slots to pick from is not problem at all.

    And yep >.> Fix bugs first, add new content later... For example i still find statheal more as a bug then a feature. Ii is still working this way...
    +1 point str = +10 max HP. +10 HP heal.
    Instead of...
    +1 point str = +10 max HP. HP gain scales depending on how much % of HP remains. If you had 200/200 (100%) you'll get +10 Hp -> 210/210 (100%), but if you had 40/200 (20%) so you'll get only +2 HP -> 42/210 (20%). And ofc if you lower STR it should be taking it away >.>
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    Because that would seriously disrupt balance and make Exped easier to get.
  13. Nebibubi

    Nebibubi New Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    When you have some free time and when bugs are mostly taken care of (if those two ever happen which I greatly doubt), maybe add some classes only playable in Survival? something fun but not OP would be good.
  14. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    That possibility is impossible because sometimes, when you fix one thing, you break two, so NotD will never be bug free. Not to mention Ability has a life outside of a computer screen unlike some of us :p
  15. Nebibubi

    Nebibubi New Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    Completely understand where your coming from but doesn't really answer my suggestion :p games will always have bugs, doesn't mean new developpements should never surface.

    Simply put, since EC/AC/SEC are pretty much balanced class-wise, if players want to see new classes, maybe implement them in survival without, again, unbalancing it ? I'm just proposing seeing how you will always have suggestions concerning new classes and Kith made clear that the normal game modes are pretty balanced as is it, why not try out classes in Survival then ?
  16. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    Because Survival is balanced too with the classes that are available. Also, special attention to this bit here:

    New developments should not surface after the game is finished. NOTD is not finished yet, but its class roster is, and it doesn't need new classes. At least, this is what I believe. If someone can convince me otherwise, then I will support them every step of the way.
  17. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    Alright, separate thread for this new class discussion.

    It has become rather irritating. It has come up in NOTD Suggestions so many times (2 ~ 4 times?), I want to force people to accelerate to the speed of sound in under 1 second.

    I just want to make a thread dedicated to my rage against new classes, and vent why I think we shouldn't get new classes.

    Kith, you mind making such a thread? I don't like making new threads.
  18. Ghostel

    Ghostel New Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    I'm pointin out that we need to consider ADD option and not only REPLACE one. I'm talking about idea of "add new class" itself, not about adding certain classes without second thought. Ofc any process of adding smth new will need some work with balance and etc... But isn't replacing one class with another doesn't cause the same...

    that would seriously disrupt balance and make Exped easier to get.

    Eh, Kittrix?

    Ok now gray wall of text >.>

    Why "ADD" is good option.

    1. Doesn't matter if you add or replace class. You'll need before implementing new class to balance the hell out of it (Oh wait a sec... we usually make balance fixes AFTER implementing new class... oh silly me ;) ).
    2. Adding new class will not cause a flame war on forums because there will be no replacing of old classes causing posts like "Durr why ya swap da "insert class here" with this new whatchamacallit". Although it will still can cause "Dat is IMBA" threads but nobody cares about them... because balance fixes will someday come to this city...
    3. Class requirements. When you ADD you're not bound by requirements of old class in case of REPLACING. You can even make requirements "you need 20.0000 Xp and 2000 rating or 160000 XP" creating a new top tier class. Basically i mean you can just adjust requirements for this "new" class anyway you want for the sake of balance and so it will be used for sure by a player with according skill in NOTD.
    4. The one and only "downside" to this option is that it will require some minor UI tweaks in class select screen. But when you see survival's class select screen your stereotype of "Class select screen of NOTD has to be 3 X 3 PERIOD" crumbles before harsh truth of reality.

    imho... i'm just sayin' >.>
  19. Eagle 11

    Eagle 11 Well-Known Member

    RE: NOTD Suggestions

    I would rather see longer skill trees with 1 more tier 1 and tier 2 skills on each skill tree for real variation rather than even more classes. Currently you pick either functionality A or B,dont have any real choice inside your picked function,there is always one way of how to skill properly(especially in the core storyline,easy company) The Tech,Desolator and Pathfinder classes which have been designed to replace certain classes in apollo sec team long after system has been set in stone are suffering lesser from this 'problematic' What can be added is things that would make the black&white more into a grey,but i dont mean that everyone should been capable to fullfill roles out of their context with that. And im not suggesting more skillpoints,everything remains same just 4 more skill per each class that could add depth to game.
  20. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Ghostel, the reason why ADDING a class is a bad idea:

    #1. It has to have some form of balance initially, and actually be capable of being made.

    #2. It has to fulfill a role not filled by all of the other classes. If it is fulfilling a role already filled, it would have to fulfill that role in an original way.

    #3. That class would have to get its own CP category.

    #4. Its not needed. There are more pressing matters.

    @Eagle 11, increasing skill tree size has a couple of problems of its own.

    #1. The entire game is balanced around how it currently is. Adding so many skills will result in a large amount of balance changes, even if the fundamental components of the skill tree remain the same. If anything, adding to both Tier 2 and Tier 1 makes no sense; adding to just the tier 1 would make sense in a 3-2-1 type progression

    #2. There would have to be 36 unique and original skills designed and made for all of the classes

    #3. While not an issue (yet), units are limited on the number of "Abilities" they can possess, such as "Move" "Attack" "Sprint" "Inventory" "Reload" etc. etc. If we go with the idea that the gravity gun is returning sometime in the future, 3 of those 32 slots have to be reserved for the gravity gun, and 1 is reserved for the Shiva. Read the quote below for why we for the most part, will not have any new skills added or new skill tree's added.

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