"Move To" Command

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by brizingr5, Feb 25, 2013.

  1. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    So, I'm sure most of you know that when you right-click on a unit, you don't actually move to it, you go into a "protection," or "mimic" mode. Well, when we're all balled up in holdouts and happen to be on the outside of the ball and want to get in, this becomes a problem, because when you try and click on the inside of the group, you just "mimic" whatever the person you clicked on is doing (which is most likely standing there spraying bullets).

    I would request adding the "Move To" command to the Marine Actions command card, the same way it's there on the medic. This would enable for better control of your marine while in a cluttered area.

    Not only that, but it sort of goes hand in hand with including all of the primary features of RTS unit command. Already leaving out things like patrol is kind of annoying. While it may not have many uses for this game in particular, it's annoying when you go and look for it, and some units have it, others don't, and you just feel like you've had an arm cut off because you can't do something you're used to doing anywhere else.
  2. DryEagle

    DryEagle New Member

    Rightclick on an empty spot on the other side of the ball of people. Then as you're walking through them, press S to stop where you want.

    What *would* be useful is Hold Position. To Especially when you're on a download hex and your marine suddenly decides to run off it to shoot something.... sure you can spam rightclick on the spot for the 2-3 minutes it takes to download, but I don't want to break my mouse just yet >.<
  3. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Press X, then M, then left click. That is your move to command.
    You have a hold command. The problem is once you use 1 ability it breaks the hold position command due to it being a new order.
  4. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Correct, the current stop button is actually the hold position command. And also, as noted, in the marine action is your actual move command.
    A few things

    1) This isn't an RTS, this is basically a 3rd person coop RPG, so much of the move commands are very much subjective and many will be removed to fit the game. Also, to my knowledge, no unit has patrol in NOTD, since it serves 0 purpose. Patrol for starcraft has been used for the following 3 purposes to my knowledge: 1) Used in lieu of attack command in sc1 because the game pathing was terrible (Dragoons up ramps = omg kill me now), 2) Used to target units, because IIRC patrol is the command that makes the unit take on the attack pattern/action of the targeted unit and 3) Auto defense to intercept drop play.

    2) Starcraft 2 Editor main power is the power to change anything, and this includes altering how anything moves and the commands available.
  5. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Pets have Patrol, IIRC.
  6. ForeRunner

    ForeRunner Well-Known Member

    They do but they just walk back and forth, they dont auto engage even while patroling
  7. HipHopDragon
    • Warden

    HipHopDragon Warden

    A lot of units (most if not all summons) have a normal command card, which means they can patrol too.

    Pets dont auto engage, patrol wont change that. Only way to make them attack is use the attack command, which means attack move is possible.
  8. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Call predator your SC2 worker. Workers dont AA while patrol unless told to.
  9. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    I use grid hotkeys, so this means absolutely nothing to me. But only the Medic has the "Move To" command in the marine options. The only other units that have it are summons, which have the "normal" command card.

    Another reason this is good is it makes following with your unit less of a pain in the ass. Move To does more a proper mimic, where it will make sure it is as close to the other unit before it starts doing anything else, as apposed to the right click, which will just copy the other units movements regardless of location.
  10. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    You can follow by holding fire with X->F (or whatever it is in the marine actions in your case) then right clicking on the unit you want to follow. I realize its a bit different from what you're asking but yeah.
  11. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    Then when the person stops moving you don't start to fire. Instead you just stand there like a rock. Still not helpful.

    Is it really that hard to just put the move command in the same location as it on the medic command card that's it's worth arguing against?
  12. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    Hasn't been needed so far........
    The last thing anyone needs to use in notd is move to. Its how deaths accur. Look at the screen, dodge mobs and win.
  13. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Right clicking to a person with hold fire moves you to them. If you do not hold fire, you will attack mobs as you move to them.

    So why so you need a move command when that is really just a person right clicking?

    You are pretty much asking "make a command that let's me be lazy and follow people", which is what right clicking essentially does; makes you follow a person.

    No reason to waste space on a move command when it does for the majority of classes that right clicking doesn't do.

    Medic and Engineer have the special move command because otherwise, they use heal ray / repair, instead of following. No other classes have that issue, hence why there is no move command on them.
  14. EdowardoLMP

    EdowardoLMP Well-Known Member

    Even if you have the Move To button, u will go into "mimic" mode because that's the nature of following in sc2 (unless you stop engaging). When units are clustered you can hardly click the ground properly, clicking on units always go into "mimic" mode.

    So it's better to hold fire (X -> F), then click inside the clustered unit.

    Like what Arturia said, medic and engineer will only follow when heal/repair skill isn't needed. Engineer has some issues with following long ago because of the repair skill.
  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Considering that it's only catering to the wants and needs of a very few and there are many ways to achieve this exact result (hold fire move, for instance)?

    Yes. It is worth arguing against. Any addition to NOTD can generate a great deal of unforeseen problems, and even if such a change wouldn't, there's still the issue that it would take a significant amount of additional time to do nothing interesting to satisfy a very small amount of individuals.

    If it was some sort of game-breaking bug? I would be absolutely all over that. However, the means are already in place to do what you request.
  16. brizingr5

    brizingr5 Member

    Right clicking units goes into a direct mimic mode, but moving to a unit will cause it to only engage once it has reached the followed units location. This is a big difference.

    Medic and Engineer don't need to Move To all that often, but others such as recon (while using his reaper), marksman (while osok'ing a flared location), fo (while arty'ing an area), or anybody else who spawns mini's/has extremely long ranged abilities all run into this same issue.

    Yes, while giving control is an alternative, do we really want to force the load onto other people of microing somebody elses unit? Or should somebody be able to tell their unit to just go with the group without having to worry about it holding back, derping about trying to shoot anything that comes within range.
  17. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    I don't understand what you're trying to get at any more.

    You want a move command that only has you attack enemies after you arrive to the person / object / thing to follow?

    When the exact same thing can be achieved by going next to a person and using a right click to follow them or by by holding fire, right clicking a person, then exiting hold fire?

    Your examples also tend to show that either you don't understand what hold fire + right click on a person does, or you want to follow a person and attack any and everything that moves while following a person, resulting in a reload that breaks the action, meaning you are now standing still and shooting things instead of following.

    I'm sorry, but its hard to understand why you need something that behaves the same exact way except for one slight difference that isn't worth arguing because there is already something that counteracts that difference (known as HOLD FIRE [That means it doesn't shoot anymore until you command it to] and RESUME FIRE [That means it will start shooting stuff again]).

    You're asking for something that is already available in the form of Hold Fire and Right Click and resume fire.
  18. Yuey
    • Warden

    Yuey Warden

    Unless you're playing particularly bad NM games or bad pubs (ie, you're pretty much doomed anyway, commands notwithstanding), most of the time when you're using long range skills, your team is stationary in a holdout, not moving about. About the only exception is in ECNM during the Nydus sequence when the Commando has to nuke them and even then you can nuke them through the minimap pretty easily and the team generally stays with you while you're doing so.

    ....In which case you hold-fire follow? I don't get it, you're making it out like there are actually situations where you leave your character following someone for so long that leaving it on hold fire is significant, its not. You should not be leaving your character unattended for so long to begin with.

    Engineers and Infantry FO generally stay with their units. Recons usually don't reaper scout when on the move or worse case scenario, he hold-fire follows when he has to (or you know, with a limited amount of micro, you can keep an eye on both). Arty FO, Commando and MM generally do not use their long range skills unless the team is stationary and covering them to begin with. Even then for long range skills, you usually screen back immediately to your character after using them.

    There's also the situation that Arturia mentioned. Reloading basically breaks all actions, so your "Move" follow command would pretty much kill you the moment you have to reload if you're not paying attention to your character to begin with.
  19. Scorpione

    Scorpione Well-Known Member

    No matter the mode fo doesn't need to look at target. Just minimap or go to target once and use the skill.
    The only time I ever follow people is when I'm being lazy. Not even scouting with reaper while moving needs following, you just look minimap for white squares. Unless you are scouting for h3 then ud have to look at reaper pov. Which means for most following at that point is best. To just follow unit x+f and right click. You want to shoot while following? Rightclick.... However once target is reached u will shoot until no enemies r near and if vision with ally is lost u stop moving.
    What I'm guessing u want is follow + shoot + auto resume follow? Lazy.com?
    If you are following someone the chances are your dps is little. E.g following target most common seen are: fo, recon, medic, chemical expert, engi.
  20. EdowardoLMP

    EdowardoLMP Well-Known Member

    There's a distance gap of 3-4 range between the follower and the selected unit for the follower to start engage enemy. Further than that distance will force them to follow. If there's no enemy in line of sight, then the follower will stick to the selected unit, and continues.

    AGAIN already said by Arturia, reload will break every follow control. "Move To" = "Hold fire + Follow", so why not bother using it?

    Since the command card is really packed will control and skill, adding more control command really isn't the best option to do. I would say the command card is near PERFECT enough without the need of running thru hotkeys that are 6+ keys away, every unit class skill's hotkey would fill up the command card eventually. There's a reason for having the X marine action command card as well.

    Is this where you clarify that people in NOTD should give control to others when they are afk? No offense, NOTD on higher difficulty like Nightmare isn't a mode that put slacking on the list as it ALWAYS get someone killed. Pause can be use if you really have urgent matters.

    As for those classes (FO minis or Engi Zoo) who needs to micro, player should know their class roles/duty instead of arguing the lack of controls and option. Control group (CRTL + 1/2/3.. ) is still available to use but not shown (1 is your hero by default)

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