MotM + Barrett = Profit?

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Ability, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    This negates the need to micro since Barrett can't FF and the ability is very strong then. Any inputs?
  2. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Well yes, it does negate the need for micro and we hand every MotM tech the barrett instead of a MM or Rifle or whatever other DPS class there is.
    Similarly though, if you do make Barrett allow friendly fire, MotM techs will just swap to crowbar instead.

    In Sec B, you don't kill Hades with MotM Barrett, you do it with MotM crowbar. And Hades can easily be soloed with that as a result.

    In AC, crowbar works better too for bosses but in EC you normally want a barrett as the MotM tech cannot deal with the large hordes during queen (or rather has to choose between c6 for mobs and ra for queen), so tends to be a barrett MotM sitting at the back while Assa or demo tanks.

    The only way to really stem the problem (if at all) is to make all weapons able to friendly fire if directly targeted, including crowbar or weaken MotM which admittedly is pretty OP when microed well or used with these 2 weapons.
  3. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    It negates the need to micro to keep from killing people, but by making him into a high-dps class that the team relies on in many cases (see apop, ivax, most of the time after that), it makes him the only tanking character that actually has to be active with his manual reloads. It's not going to make that much of a difference if a protection assault misses a reload, because he doesn't really do any more damage than a medic. It's not going to make that much of a difference if an order flamer misses a reload because his dps comes from abilities. If the motm tech misses a reload halfway through apoptosis on nm, it's gg.

    If necessary, make it so that similar to crowbar, it can target allies but not do damage. This way you can't just leave it on and you have to manual target somewhat to keep from wasting ammo and not killing the enemies.
  4. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    MotM tech usually use pistol for apop due to the fast reload and not much worse dps (factoring in reloads). Team just stands a bit further away.
    Still, MotM does not increase attack speed, so it is pretty difficult to miss a reload on a slow fire weapon such as the barrett (you dont have to relaod at 0 to get a speed bonus)
  5. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    - Barrett can now target allies but deal no damage to them
  6. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I don't feel that this is really a nerf for Barrett or MotM given that you rarely use MotM barrett outside of boss scenarios. You might use it as a Oh-Shit button when you got masses converging, but outside of Survival Mode and possibly Athena there are few such times.
  7. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    I strongly disagree. With proper cockpit control, I can keep motm active for most of the post-naz sections, and motm barrett is a great way to eliminate close range high priority targets quickly without risk of friendly fire (unlike stinger and turret). Without a taunt, the way that flametank and techtank save people is through slows (net and smite), stuns (faith), and just killing stuff (shatter, faith, and motm barrett). (I define a tanking character as one who's job is to keep others from taking hits, if necessary by taking them himself) Without Barr MotM you lose a lot of you protection ability.
  8. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    By extension that reasoning would mean any dps class is a tank as they kill stuff that could cause the team to take hits.

    MotM Tech is not much of a tank and more of a dps support class considering his T2 and T3. The only tankish part of the MotM tech is the nanite aura (support/medical) and that he gets some bonus hp/armor while MotM is active, which is vastly outshone by his DPS ability.
    IMO some talents are in fact better swapped on the Tech's trees to better define a role, but that is another matter.
  9. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    A tank is designed to keep others from taking hits in any way possible, including taking the hits for them as one of those ways.

    MotM Tech has nanites, healing from scrap, and MotM. Scrap is very often overlooked because it's so much more micro intensive than any other tanking skills of other tanks.
  10. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    There's a bug currently. Barrett will kill teammates now regardless of MotM
  11. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    I just use a shotgun. If you have to rely on a no FF weapon as a crutch to use MotM, you clearly aren't very good at the class in the first place.
  12. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    Real men use the M45 Marksmen Rifle.
  13. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
    • Community Leader

    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    If the Boss is going to be facetanked by the Tech, then just use a Flamer/SG/CB. If you tank at range (Nazara) I generally use the CG. Mostly because there's no class on Apollo thats truly built around the CG. That frees up an MM or a Crifle to use the Barrett.

    Is it really that hard to spam right click on a boss? Or are players attack moving once and hoping for the best.
  14. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    This may be so, but its all about reliability. We are not guaranteed a good tech, so people roll with whats is the most simple, surefire method, in this case Bar.
  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I've never been a fan of the Barrett's "No friendly fire" update. It makes things stupid when the Technician goes into MotM. Yeah, the Crowbar is the "perfect weapon" for MotM because it doesn't do FF so people who suck at micro can get away with using it guilt-free, but it also massively limits the Technician's attack range. He turns into a melee unit that can only attack air units in the event of hitting them with the net, which decreases the amount of time he can spend in MotM. It also opens him up to stray hits. Granted, with his gargantuan health/armor pool in MotM and huge regeneration rate, damage isn't going to be much of an issue, but hits means ailments, and ailments means the Tech is going to have one hell of a time surviving once out of MotM.

    Giving the Barrett no friendly fire capability means that any scrub can turn on MotM and wield a ragecannon that's capable of obliterating anything in a handful of shots from a massive distance. The issue here lies in the fact that the Barrett lacks friendly fire, something that I cannot find a reason for. The easiest fix is to reinstate the Barrett's friendly fire capabilities and move on.
  16. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    They have already done what you say, the Barret can now target friendlies, and waste ammo doing so, but will not harm them. In this way, Barret won't accidentally TK people, as it did before, but will not allow one to blindly MotM Bar, you have to micro it to hit the intended target, otherwise you just burn time/ammo doing nothing effectively.

    The original reason for no friend fire with bar is that it is somewhat easy to accidently attack move, click on someone, and either A) Harm them badly, or B) OHK on a crit. Bar base damage means a crit will obliterate any character regardless. Only a tech in MotM can withstand it.
  17. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    "but will not harm them", therefore still making it the best weapon in the game when wielded by a MotM tech. I don't care about "accidental misclicks", people need to learn to not order attack moves near their teammates. Making it unable to blow people away means that the MotM tech becomes easymode. Wasted ammo is not a large enough punishment for fucking up what is hands down the most powerful ability/weapon combo in the game.

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