MOH Concept that got rejected

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by Kith, Feb 4, 2015.

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  1. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    No, how it no longer caps at 10. My plan was to get medals to 10/10/10/... and then declare it done and quit.
    Now it doesn't look as appealing with my car at 40-something, lom in 30+. And generally values all around.
    And i was close too (open)
  2. stanK

    stanK Member

    So MOH will require exped... Wow, just kill all the fun. Put the fun in camps, why don't you?
    Lets put down some constructive arguments why I think such change will make the game MUCH worse than it is now.

    1) Strong class composition matters in AC and MOH should be rewarded for beating the game without anyone dying.
    How do you expect newbies are going to play AC NM after this is implemented? Funnily, i already have an answer. This is exactly the way I started out with AC VET (not NM). Always exped, FO and Engy, no exceptions, remake if not. It relied on the most painful strategies ever conceived, such as:
    * blocking hordes with Engy towers
    * not killing barrels in fort and camping between them
    * tanking Demeter in armory with turrets and Engy towers
    * FO stunning large horde of enemies when they spawn after Demeter
    * walling Tanaka on ramp as Cronus just starts
    The amount of fail in those games was glorious, but they taught me a very important lesson. Going exped in AC is bad if you are a newbie, because it gives you a false impression that you need Engy and FO to beat the game. Reality is both of these classes are support only and make the game even harder when you pick them. Engy and FO aren't help -- they are a nerfed liability. It was only when I realized this, I improved at AC. I started picking decent DPS classes, duplicated things what work like commandos, and eliminated things that don't work. After I started to win VET, I was able to move to NM. And after AC NM became "broken" with insane spawns it also became one of the most fun modes, cause it now offered a real fun challenge that one could beat using skill and knowledge (and buying unfortunately) instead of cheese, luck, turtling, skipping objectives or exploiting game features.
    Now AC NM win is a reward in itself. MOH is a reward for doing it perfectly and is like a cherry on top of a cake -- a perfect fit that makes sense and is expected. Returning it back to the "FO and Engy exped dark ages" will not only force you to reduce the amount of difficulty that makes it fun, it will also return tactics that are a pain to play similar to those I have mentioned, and will promote exploiting some of the less balanced class features to farm AC NM wins.

    2) Goodbye MOH from SEC, hello MOH from EC only.
    For a joke mode like EC, exped or no exped makes little difference to MOH. For a real mode like SEC strong class composition is critical. To this day I have no idea how to beat it consistently without 2 smm, at least one of which buys a sting. I will take your word for it if you tell me it's possible with exped, and that you can even do it without random demo or something, but I will consider you are shitting me if you tell me you can do it consistently. To beat SEC consistently with exped and MOH -- you need a team that just does not fuck up. Considering the number of players left that play SEC I can tell you can kiss SEC MOH goodbye.
    It will also open the doors for class compositions that will beat SEC in cheesy ways instead of really learning to play anything, just like it will for AC NM. If its easy to beat without MOH, and it is next to impossible to beat with MOH, what will be the most common way of playing the game? It will be "farm cheese wins in SEC, farm MOH in EC". The new reward system will encourage just that and will kill off any fun in challenge thats left.

    3) The last hopes of making EC fun will be gone.
    I have a replay that I wanted to upload for a while. Its a game of easy company, with a twist. In lobby I asked the team to do a special build: 2 mando, 2 smm, 2 con, demo, med. I also asked them to play NM kinda like recruit, but still NC NM style, and I planned to do chemical leaks. It didn't work out as planned (due to game bug), but it was one of the most fun and hilarious EC NM games that I played in a while. We got a MOH in the end and the entire game was possible only because of the build we did. Not awarding MOH for us at the end of that game would just be unfair, cause we certainly could have played something simpler and less fun to get MOH. Oh and i also forgot to open a bug report... anyways enjoy the replay.

    So in conclusion MOH exped requirement is just bullshit. It will make the game hostage to stupid strategies by rewarding them too much (easy SEC/AC NM cheese wins), and it will virtually eliminate the good games that are really fun, challenging and build better players. Please don't do this change and just fix the stuff that needs fixing, whenever you spare a minute or two for notd1.

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    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
  3. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    Wait, does exped require 8 people? If so then I retract my earlier statement and am vehemently against this for similar reasons to niktos and stank. I was expecting MoH in AC and Sec to just be done with fewer players (e.g just go 6 man without the engy/fo or without the med/pathy/chem). I was actually considering this a plus because of the size of the current community; encouraging low-man games would provide a much greater volume of quality nm games with only one or two newbies to teach as opposed to half a dozen remakes of two or three quality players trying to carry a lobby full of pub heroes.
  4. EdowardoLMP

    EdowardoLMP Well-Known Member

    Yes, it does. So it's sort of retracting the MOH's "must required 3 person and above" requirement, forcing a full team play for Exped MOH only.
  5. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    MoH shouldn't require exped. It should require no multiples of a class.
  6. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Y'all need to chill, 'cause y'all are acting like it's a definite thing when the first post in the thread clearly says it isn't.

    That said, the feedback and arguments stated in this thread are reason enough for me to leave it alone. It's not happening.

    You're right, I'm not prepared to put in the time to rebalance NOTD. There was a time that I was, and that time is no longer now - that's why I pretty much gave up on it and started working on the sequel instead.
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • I'll drink to that! I'll drink to that! x 1
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