Misconception about flamer damage...

Discussion in 'Archive' started by ChuckWing, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    flamethrower data is 10x more difficult to acquire due to survival/randomness.
  2. bunny

    bunny Member

    Then give us a good explanation as to how flamethrower can do 100+ damage to agrons without crits and hits a maximum of 4 out of 12 times.

    The truth remains: flamethrower does about 4x as much as AP claims it should be doing.
  3. David

    David Well-Known Member

    bunny, based on what we know the flamethrower either is hitting for x2 damage or the flames are smaller and more numerous than previously thought. So either 4 flames hit twice, or 7-8 smaller flames are hitting once. Until AP explains his statement about only 4 flames being able to hit an agron we won't really know. The flamethrower does not do 4x more damage than expected. It's 2x if anything. I'll restate again the reality of a 4x2 model or 8x1 model will look exactly the same. The flamethrower does not do more than 100 damage against agrons without crits. As I've shown it does 72 maximum with no mods. With weapon mods and ammo mods you can exceed 100.

    The new laser is awesome against everything. It pretty much does the same damage as the old laser except now it has instantaneous attacks so no more wasted ammo and faster target acquisition (it no longer has to wait for the projectiles to kill the mob before switching targets). It really is the ultimate gun against single, spaced out mobs while, still retaining potency against higher armor mobs. On top of that the effect of HE is greatly increased. It is a high dps gun with great efficiency. I consider the latest changes to the laser to be a buff. It now becomes valuable gun that people will actually want to use, more valuable than an m45 IMO.
  4. bunny

    bunny Member

    yeah, I misread the patch notes
    I assumed he just made laser not hit twice and made it hit instantly. Now it is actually quite hilarious... It's like HMG on steroids.

    Flamethrower is pretty screwed up. I don't know what AP is going to say; last time I checked (about 3 weeks ago) he still believed the game was using combined damage.
  5. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    Game is using combined damage, just combined damage is not working like logic would imply by combining all modifiers but by averaging most extreme 2. It's here with a map atached for proof.

    Is combined dmg type like this forever or if one of patches made by blizzard changed it since the time NOTD was initially made is unknown. But NOTD relying on triggers and spaghetti of a code was fucked over by blizz patches before and this might as well be same, just went unnoticed for long long time.
  6. rockz
    • Donator

    rockz Well-Known Member

    I don't think it does more than 72 damage without crits.

    I will say I am unable to get accurate data using the +3 range from flamethrower.

    It seems at 7.8 range, the flamethrower can't hit the APC, but it will at slightly less. I'm fairly certain it hits twice at less, but as I said before, since I don't know the radius of everything, it's very difficult to form theories.
  7. bunny

    bunny Member

    I dunno, it doesnt always seem to. For example, flamethrower seems to always do 13 damage (per hit) to units that are bio, armored, and massive. It shouldn't do that if it was averaging the extremes.
  8. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    Where the hell did you take 13 dmg from now...
    Agron bio-massive-armored no mods assa crits for 18, ergo dmg before crit is 9
    Screenshot2014-01-11 02_20_28.jpg

    Seriously read last 5 pages again, post by post, OR cut the seems/feels like/looks and test stuff on your own.
  9. David

    David Well-Known Member

    Hey why do you only get 8 hits when Niktos gets 18 with a normal range flamethrower?
  10. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    Those are max range hits probably. I got 8/7 on max range, 18 was kissing rock.
  11. David

    David Well-Known Member

    Right, for some reason I thought he was trying to modify the length of the flames. My bad.
  12. spartanhija

    spartanhija Member

    Flame op on any combat unit why bother with numbers when you can watch a mother fucker burn
  13. bunny

    bunny Member

    among these past 5 pages you might find the part where I mention that flamethrower crits on tart for 13 which is consistent max damage, not averaging. I'm not trying to imply that the game uses max damage, hell if I know. I'm just saying the way damage is dealt is FUBAR.

    About crits... I thought the number that pops up is the additional damage you do, otherwise how the hell did I get 13? I guess I need to test again to double check. Maybe it looked like a 13 but was an 18? I dunno my eyesight is pretty good and 2048x1152 shouldnt give me issues.

    Also, if flamethrower was doing 9 damage per hit on agrons (no crits) then something is seriously wrong when my medic with 1 perc adn 1 damage mod seems to keep getting roughly 100 (or more) damage each attack. I guess I do need to start doing some screenshots :/
  14. Blaqk
    • Development Team
    • Webmaster/Ops

    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Operations and Web

    I'm sure that by "per hit" he means the individually calculated splash, not the total damage done per burst.
  15. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    jesus tapdancing christ it's a fucking zombie
  16. Niktos

    Niktos Well-Known Member

    Crit is absolutely NOT reliable way of testing dmg on some bosses and targets that don't survive hit.
    I crit all the time for 93 on zombies with stinger as this is their max health which coincides with dmg dealt. It's same for anything that will die to hit inflicted with critical strike.

    For tart case is more complicated i can't link the post so just made a screenshot

    Attached Files:

  17. squish

    squish Well-Known Member

    @Arturia: HE and FV, along with Heightened Senses... are those multiplicative damage boosts? Or additive?
  18. TheWolf
    • Donator

    TheWolf Surgeon of Death

    well they are debuffs on the enemy so they will affect your weapon damage after all other boosts kicked in alrdy (hp, surg strike, blood frenzy etc) so in that regard multiplicative. but amongst themselves additive.
  19. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Pretty much this.

  20. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    So did a tad bit of testing. TL;DR I was horribly wrong on how many times a given flame could impact queen and an agron. At point blank or close to it, queen can be hit up to 14 times by a single shot. Agron can be 8. Also, as a slight oddity of how I redid crits, if any damage effect (any one of the flames) crits, all the remaining flames will also do double damage. On one hand they all should get double damage for a crit, the issue being is that it gets to roll 14 times for crit chance, which I won't go super into the statistics, pretty much guarantees most hits will crit. So flamer connects for 14 hits per shot to queen, and is practically doing double damage at all times... toss in all the other buffs (FV, Surge, HS) and yeah... this means for a baseline, the flamer does over 130 damage to queen.

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