Military Structure

Discussion in 'Universe' started by Ability, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. Ability
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    Ability NOTD Creator

    In NOTDs universe, how would the military be organized?
    - is everything under a UGC umbrella?
    - is there still a tradition navy, air force, army, marines?
    - how does the military run its space operations?
    - is this an all volunteer army still?
    - how have drone/automated systems replaced the role of actual personnel?
    - what is the predominant military doctrine now and how did it evolve?

    Discuss.
  2. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Well, here are my odd thoughts and assumptions that I've been working under myself, as well as reasons for it.

    Is everything under a UGC Umbrella:

    Technically yes, but actually no. The UGC, by it's charter and actions holds itself up as having dominion over everything that they can reach. All of Earth, the Moon, Mars, and all points in between. But the truth of the matter is something else entirely. While yes, most of Earth (Particularly in First World locations) is quite well secure under UGC Authority, there are other areas that basically are not really under UGC authority. This comes down to a combinations of several factors: 1) A Lack of Important Resources. 2) A history of sedition, rebellion, and anarchy which makes them much harder to handle. 3) The Cost vs. Profit potential of actually trying to fully secure the area.

    The Moon is fully under UGC control, via Compliance Nexuses and garrisoned marines because of it's vital resources. But various ancient hot spots are still hot spots because, well... not like the problems that existed before to cause the trouble necessarily would disappear because of the UGC. Some situations might have been smoothed out, but others still are a problem. Unless there is some reason where they NEED to put law and order in that zone, they probably don't bother. They just focus on containing it, making sure that small conflicts don't build up into massive wars and genocides.

    Is there still a traditional navy, air force, army, marines:

    Simple answer is yes. Longer answer is that the the air force would probably be dropped. Several nations do not actually have a dedicated Air Force. And in the UGC Future, the sole area of dominion that the Air Force might actually have is Space (As in the US, the Space Program is heavily tied into the Air Force). However I'm pretty sure that the Navy would have something to say... as the idea of a force that patrols the lanes of commerce and travel is pretty much the very definition of a Navy, and is the very purpose that Navies were invented in the ancient world.

    The roles of the Army and the Marines are typically different enough that I can see both of them still existing. The UGC Army would be a much larger, slower reacting, permanent force. It is meant for long term assignments and wars. The Army most likely has garrisons and missions in active hot spots that, on the above list actually do have something that make the cost of enforcing UGC rule worth the price of conducting war (See for example South Africa which has a lot of strategic minerals?) As the Compliance Nexus technology spread and was proven successful, civilian government, being what civilian governments are they have probably been drawing down traditional garrisons and closing military bases. I'm certain the Mars Incident put a slow down/halt to it however. The Marines, being Marines, are probably a much more flexible, relatively rapid response force. Stationed aboard Navy bases/Orbital Platforms (See: Vigil Station over Apollo), and Naval Ships gives them an ability to respond much faster than more traditional forces, establish beachheads in war zones, and serve as the first strike force in conflicts.

    How does the Military run its space operations:

    Under the auspice of the Navy. However I don't believe there are many "actual warships" in Space for the most part. And what "Warships" they do have are focused more on long range fire support in concert with ground operations. There just isn't a significant enough threat to the space lanes themselves (Petty rebels and criminal gangs wouldn't have spaceships to cause any sort of piracy trouble, space is expensive and requires expertise they probably don't have. And Alien Empires or the ilk haven't really been discovered). The Navy does have a primary responsibility for Search and Rescue missions in space, accidents happen. And they do maintain ships in the lanes between the Moon, Mars and Earth to conduct rescues for those accidents.

    Is this an all volunteer army still:

    As much as it may jive with the Flamethrower Lore (As convicts press ganged in to nigh suicide missions), I want to say Yes. Conscript Armies don't necessarily make sense in a modern world, it's usually the sign of a second or third world nation for the most part. And considering you won't have situations like North/South Korea under unified UGC rule for the most part, Conscript Armies just wouldn't be a necessity. Of course criminal organizations and militia groups aren't above such conscripting. Likely there are certain perks for volunteering for UGC Military Service. Free education? Right to pursue public office? Stipends for families of service members (Making service very attractive to poorer families)?

    How have drone/automated systems replaced the role of actual personnel:

    Very little. Drones and the like are always favored by the bean counters as building a drone for 100,000 is cheaper than training and maintaining a squad of soldiers. However the old wisdom is "You don't own a place until you got boots on the ground". Even as AI improves and automatic drones have combat routines the simple need for boots on the ground can never be underestimated. Particularly after the Mars failure, which has been the textbook example of how machines and computers can never fully replace the infantryman with a rifle and a knife in maintaining control. As they moved onto the more significant machines, from simple aerial drones to powerful combat walkers and the ilk, it's much more common for individual infantry squads to have backup from such drones and has greatly increased the capabilities of the armed forces, allowing the soldiers on the ground to be much more effective than the size of their force would suggest. But it never fully supplants the need for the human presence on the battlefield.

    What is the predominant military doctrine now and how didn't (did it?) evolve:

    The biggest change is the lack of large, set piece assaults in the world. Total war, and the idea of two armies forming up and clashing in a headlong conflict is now entirely a forgotten facet of warfare. It just doesn't exist and the UGC isn't geared to fight such a battle, not to mention there isn't really any army that is capable of actually conducting such a battle against them, least not to their knowledge. Peacekeeping missions are common place, as well as counterinsurgency missions to reflect the missions that the military itself often finds itself in, not to mention precision black operations to eliminate specific threats. Against larger scale operations the plan is often a case of precision application of superior firepower against limited targets, instead of total war, carpet bombing, kill them all and let the Gods sort them out style warfare.
  3. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Military in the Political System
    Thinking of the Starship Trooper's view of serving in the military to be a citizen, or national service for all Israelis, would the UGC world be one where people who served in the military had higher 'rights/prestige/privileges'? This would also help them solidify their position and ensure those in power are aligned to them.

    Not sure how the whole civilian leadership and military structure plays out, if it's something genuinely separate of the civilian leadership is just mainly former military too. Thoughts?

    Automated Systems/Humans in the Military
    The cost of a regular active force is high. Events in our current history (early 21st century) has conclusively shown that Drones/Special Forces are an effective force for most of modern engagements (Drone strikes in Pakistan being so effective the Taliban is afraid, Special Forces leading most of the tactical kills on insurgent leaders). Their share of military spending has also went up while that of traditional forces are slowly being more rationalized. In NOTD's universe, the advent of global terrorist events may have brought this shift further. The only main traditional war that has happened after today's history is the Iran War (2033 - more than 70 years ago from The Apollo Incident). Mostly agree with your overall line of thought, just want this fleshed out a bit better.

    Also, with the advancement of robotics/cybernetics, especially with Japan leading it (significant investment, use and development today making it world No. 1), a lot of that technology can be captured in rebuilding disabled veterans. In return, perhaps that required longer service to the UGC military and also made them more loyal? I don't know. Need a military mind on this one.
  4. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Well, based on my experience with veterans, for every veteran who loved his time in the service and the things he did (Or at least says so), there is one who absolutely hated it, and there is another who would do it again but has no strong opinions one way or another. And regardless of where they stand on that scale there are still the horror stories that will haunt them when they reach the deepest state of drunkeness before death by alcohol poisoning.

    Course, just my experience in dealing with other people, as I was unable to join the service myself.
  5. Ability
    • Development Team
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    Ability NOTD Creator

  6. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    That is wholly outside my realm of experience. Though I suppose it might be the case with dangerously psychotic men and women. But to a man every veteran I know would hardly qualify as addicted to war.
  7. Inquisitor

    Inquisitor New Member

    Never make an assumption based on a Hollywood movie, or any movie for that matter.
    Wikipedia shouldn't always be consulted either for some cases.

    As for war addiction... I've never heard of that in a scientific manner i.e. having any credibility to it.
    I know a family friend who's in the US military who enjoys the adrenaline-like thrill of a firefight, though many others that I know are not as equally thrilled at all, and that friend is a not the regular soldier, being an Army SF operator. He is nowhere near a madman, or crazed killer, just one that finds a trill in danger. There's also a huge difference between "war addiction" and enjoying the adrenaline of danger (motocross riding, bungee jumping etc)

    On top of that, addiction to war is very broad... What part of war does the addiction focus on?

    Not every soldier who goes to war actually fights, in fact the vast majority are behind the lines in POG positions. only a small percentage actually see proper fire fights on a regular basis.
    So be careful with the whole "addicted to war thing."

    It would be nice for you to elaborate on what you are trying to ask.
  8. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Yes, it's probably not addiction as in they are crazed or ill-adjusted. It's just something I've been reading over the years and also comes up in common literature. It's an over generalization, but there is truth in every fiction. Anyway, it's not really related to our main points. I don't know enough about the topic to be specific yet. Scratching the tip of the iceberg for now and seeking to understand and hope some actual military folks will add to the conversation.

    Additional Reading
    http://sg.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 450AAMVj6t
    http://www.vanityfair.com/online/oscars ... -room-talk
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/22/opini ... enway.html

    Additional Q
    What would the projected size of a military force in NOTD's universe be like? Thoughts?
  9. Inquisitor

    Inquisitor New Member

    The Yahoo answer is well thought out. I'd stick with that one.

    Anyway, Size of military force? I sort of liked the starship troopers model..
    That would make the military 100s of thousands strong at the minimum if we are talking a unified earth here.
  10. Blaqk
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    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    To answer that question, we'd have to do 2 things.

    1) Calculate the national populations based on growth trends (I can do that).
    2) Decide which Earth nations contribute to the UGC military.

    We could then use the current military personnel to population ratios of those nations to get an accurate, plausible number.
  11. Ability
    • Development Team
    • NOTD Creator

    Ability NOTD Creator

    Thanks. If we sort my ascending (using as a rough approximation), today's active military is:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _of_troops

    China - 2.3m
    USA - 1.5m
    India - 1.3m
    North Korea - 1.1m
    Russia - 1.1m

    Using the top 5 countries as a benchmark, say the meaningful military size today is about 7m personnel. With a relatively unified global force, new military doctrine and improved technology, a sustainable (both economically/politically) may be around 3-4m in NOTD's universe?

    Army - 50%?
    Navy - 20%?
    Air Force - 20%?
    Marines - 10%?
    Total - 4m

    This would exclude all the drones, UAVs and automated vehicles (which the US military is going for today). I don't know, it may be less too if a fair share of the back-end operations (logistics/low-level intelligence/base staff) were automated and/or outsourced to the private sector (like what is happening in Iraq/Afghanistan today).
  12. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    Those numbers might be off. Our Projected numbers... though I sometimes suspect the real world numbers as well. Wouldn't be the first time an Armed Service inflated it's capabilities.

    The game itself seems to suggest that the military itself does local law and order, least on some level. Which inflates the need for military personnel far more than the current situation. Not like we have US Cities all being policed by Marines or Army Rangers. But we can presume this is at least the case on Apollo with some... 40,000 men being stationed on it or so. Which suggests 13% of the population is actually in the armed services.
  13. Blaqk
    • Development Team
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    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    Are Earth governments, for the most part, unified at this point?
  14. ImaDomo
    • Donator

    ImaDomo Clad In Armour

    Are Earth governments, for the most part, unified at this point?

    Mostly over one third of the world nations are in the U.N, however each country has their own hidden agenda and ambitions. So even though we are unified, there are back stabbers in various countries, but overall we are unified.
  15. WADE

    WADE New Member

    i would say since there are compliance nexus they could of annexed the whole police force and made them 1 with the military and seen as how most of the travel between planets i would say only navy and army........ The navy would take role of aircraft/spacecraft in part as it is easier to maintain at higher levels of governance,,
    that is all :)
  16. grandmarshal

    grandmarshal New Member

    - is everything under a UGC umbrella?

    [align=justify]Yes, that;s the most likely outcome. it would be a loose confederation in the beginning , G8 merged to bring their global resources together into a single superpower. gradually, more and more countries joined and formed a confederation. all major players will be represented in a senate style government headed by a president. [/align]

    - is there still a tradition navy, air force, army, marines?

    New branches will emerged from the combined UGC Army.

    [align=justify]
    Confed Army - Responsible for maintaining the land integrity of the territory.

    Starfleet - manage and maintain all space related matters, including travel, customs and warships. it will have its own organic space marines

    ***Space marine - subordinate to the navy. responsible for shipborne & space station security. Provide amphibious assault to the star fleet

    Starfighter Command - maintain air integrity of the confed territory.

    Territorial Army - provide locsl defense, law enforcement & paramilitary service. this includes policing of the populace.

    ***Note: the territorial army will be similiar to the ANG of USA today except that the role had been expanded to include police work. the apollo sec team is 1 example of a territorial army.

    509 Group - Born from the famous 509 Group that dropped the 1st A Bomb. Reporting directly to HQ UGCA, Commands all Confed Special weapons, including IPBMs (inter-planet ballistics missile), Orbital strike weapons and V High yield weapons. Black Ops Command is subordinate to the 509 Group.

    ***Black ops Command - Elite espionage, counter espionage and assassination unit. just like ninjas of old feudal Japan, they are masters of stealth and will do anything to ensure the integrity of the Confederation.

    Special Science Division - Responsible for all R&D matters of the Confed Army. Manages and maintain the Compliance Matrix System.

    [/align]

    - how does the military run its space operations?
    [align=justify]the starfleet will maintain all space related operations and ensure the space integrity of the confed territory. part of the mandate also include exploring new frontiers for mankind.
    [/align]
    - is this an all volunteer army still?

    yes, the professional army will only be employed in an escalated situation where the territorial army will not be able to handle at their level. e.g the apollo sec team was not able to contain the Z outbreak and the army will step in ...or in times of war

    - how have drone/automated systems replaced the role of actual personnel?

    Drones are used in areas where:

    - NBC level are deemed to be unsafe for human inteference
    - drones will be used where threat level are deemed to be v high for human insertion. examples will be like SEAD missions, recon, high attitude spy drone...

    However, that being said,the confed is "benevolent" to give convicts a second chance and prove themselves to be a "model" citizen. instead of rotting in a 6 x 6 cell, they will be encased in a mobile suit and served in the front line as a FT. once their sentence is completed, they are free to be a citizen of the confed.

    - what is the predominant military doctrine now and how did it evolve?

    at this point in time,with an unified government and compliance matrix in place, the main tactical strategy they will be facing is counter insurgency and fighting rebels who refuses to be tagged. this will bound to happen as people will be rebellous to the system which they intepret as restricting their own freedom.

    thus, for the most part, the territorial army, reporting to the regional governor, will act as the first line of defence and will ensure order to their respective area. should the crisis escalate, the confed army will come in help.

    thus, the base unit for the Confed Army will centered on a division size task force with 1 infantry brigade, 1 air cavalry brigade, 1 armor brigade and their supporting elements. it will contain its own organic air lift capability such as VSTOL dropship for vertical insertion & gunships for close air support to enhance mobility.

    the upside is that given the huge territory needed to cover, the confed enhanced air mobility will ensure quick response to any crisis.
  17. EdAWACSdenyY

    EdAWACSdenyY Member

    This is my entire detailed version of how I feel the UGC military would be organized this is from my actual thread see what do you think Ability???

    The UGC military Structure

    The UGC military is divided into 3 main sectors:
    • UGC Terrestrial Forces (UGCTF)
    • UGC Air Force (UGAF)
    • UGC Navy (UGCN)
    UGC Terrestrial Forces (UGCTF)
    The United Global Coalition Terrestrial forces are in charge of all material and matters of Warfare related to ground forces. They are in charge of the UGC marine corps the Psi-Ops organization and the Black Operations covert units. Due to the advent of the Compliance Nexus however, the UGCTF was reduced to 23% of its former strength. It seemed that the UGC Marine Corps were destined to extinction until the Apollo incident.

    Also under UGCTF control is the United Armored Vehicle Corps (UAVC).
    They currently make up about 65% of the UGC military both in manpower and politics. They are also the most active branches of the military especially after the Apollo incident.

    Under General Koller, The UGCTF (mostly the marine corps) has expanded and is now approximately a million men-strong with world-wide jurisdiction. As the UGCTF members are usually always in close contact with the civilians they also have the advantage of public support and the mass media. So it's not surprising that they are the favorites for the Propaganda Department to utilize. As its is so popular the UGCTF receives about 50% of the UGC military's annual defense budgetThe UGCTF is further separated into 3 main divisions.

    1. UGC marine corps
    -Rifle corps
    -Medic Corps
    -Assault Forces
    -Sniper Faction
    -Recon Faction
    -Heavy Support Division (Demolition's,Artillery Specialists, Incendiary Specialist)
    -Engineer Corps
    -Techniciens Sector
    -Commando Corps
    -Airborne rapid Response Division

    *note the Psi-Ops are not included as their is not enough concrete evidence from reliable witnesses or UGC-approved information provided to confirm the actual existence of the Psi-Ops.
    Likewise, the Chemical Experts belong more to the science and technology departments and therefore not part of the UGC marine corps officially

    2. UAVC
    The UAVC is now a the 2nd most funded division within the UGCTF since the advent of the Compliance Nexus therefore many of their hardware are at best a generation behind in some aspects. There isn't really a clear division within this group

    -Vehicles:
    • Tanks: M2A3 Abrams Main battle Tank, M24 Light Tank
    • Armoured Vehicles: M33 APC, M66 Armoured Reconnaissance Vehicle, D12 Stryker Armoured Assault Walker, M21/334 Scout,
    • Artillery: M1A5E80 100mm howitzer, M4N566 155mm howitzer, X-449Q Hypervelocity Magnetic Resonance Acceleration 88mm Cannon
    3. Black Operations covert faction

    These Shadowy Soldiers of the UGC answer only to the highest positions in the UGC government. While, widely known by the general public, the Black-Ops are rarely seen by civilians or regular UGC personnel. Perhaps that is a good thing.

    -Hardware:

    • Mk-13 Reaper Drone
    • RQ-33 Sentinel Drone
    UGC Air Force (UGCAF)
    The UGCAF was created from the former USAF after the unification proclamation was signed by the 5 great national powers of the world.

    The USAF therefore was mixed with the RAF(Britain), the PLAAF(China), The Russian Air Force, and the Armee De L'Air(France) The UGCAF despite its name is also in control of spacecraft such as orbital bombers, star fighters and gunships etc. They are take about 23% of the UGC military's total annual budget.

    The authorized companies who design their aircraft and spacecraft as other products are currently: Lockheed/Douglas Incorporated, Euro-central Dynamics, Boeing, Northrop Stealth Systems, Anaheim Systems.

    The USAF due to budgetary issues and with the advent of the Compliance Nexus have been reduced to only 69% of their previous strength. The UGCAF also briefly was in charge of the UGC Tactical Nuclear Arsenal but has now ceded control of them to the UGC Navy as well as the UGCTF Commando Corps. Most of their Star fighters have also been integrated with the Forward Observer sector of the UGC marine corps.

    Also most crippling is the removal of some of the UAV division to the UGCTF for support purposes. The UGCAF now has to struggle to win its independence or risk being torn about and absorbed by wither the UGCN or the UGCTF. The UGCAF is divided into 2 major divisions: The UGC Aerial Sector and the UGC Exo-Atmospheric Sector, The former controlling all the air-forces on Earth while the latter controls all sections related to Space-craft.
    *note the UGN Fleet Air Arm is not part of the UGCAF

    1.UGC Aerial Sector

    Fighters:
    • F-19 star/sky fighter bomber
    • F-66 air superiority fighter
    Bombers:
    • Boeing B58 SkyFortress heavy bomber
    • B-4 Silence Stealth (former thermonuclear) bomber
    VOTOL:
    Harrier Gr.55 jump-jet
    VT-r336 tactical all weather dropship
    VT-r50 Transport Ship
    YC-r22/66 tilt roter Osprey Transport multipurpose aircraft

    2. UGC Exo-Atomospheric Sector
    Star-fighters:
    • F-19 star/sky fighter bomber
    • F-S29 Harpy supersonic starfighter
    Sub Orbital-Bombers
    • Boeing B-S76 Equalizer Strategic bomber
    Sub-Orbital Gunships
    • AH-61/24 Tactical Attack Hover Copter
    • AH-32/54 Tactical Gunship
    • AC-130V Heavy Gunship
    UGC Navy (UGCN)

    This Sector is the pride and prestige of the UGC. The UGCN was created like the UGCAF, from the former US navy, the Royal Navy, the French Navy and the People's Liberation Army navy. It claims approximately 27% of the UGC military's total annual budget. The UGC Navy has also suffered cutbacks due to the expense of maintaining and upgrading new naval vessels. Luckily however there is still use for orbital warships to protect commerce and extend UGC power to the void of space. As there is no application for Compliance Technology in Naval affairs the UGCN was able to shake off the advent of the Compliance Nexus.

    Of the 3 power blocs of the UGC military, the UGC Navy is also the most bitterly divided.

    The 2 main branches of the UGC Navy are the Terrestrial Ocean Sector (TOS) and the Orbital Star Fleet Command (OSFC) The TOS is resentful of the OSFC due to the OSFC being held in higher regard by the UGC government as the OSFC has attracted more public attention and more people wish to enlist in a space faring navy than being stuck on Earth. The OSFC is also resentful of the TOS which it sees as a vestial part of the UGC Navy. as a result there is harsh isolation between the 2 sectors.

    The TOC also suffered the brunt of military cutbacks as many of its aging destroyers and carriers as well as other naval vessels are verging on becoming outmoded and obsolete.The emphasis now in the TOS is on mostly amphibious assault ships, a handful of trimaran super warships, and mostly on nuclear submarines.

    The OSFC, in contrast is has more vessels at its disposal including the Legendary Asgard Gunship as well as at least 6-9 battle worthy fleets in orbit around Earth and its colonies and it wields the majority of the UGC's Nuclear Arsenal both tactical and strategic. If there is anything in doubt, The UGC Navy will continue to exist with or without the Compliance Nexus.

    1.TOS
    Carriers: 2 active, 3 mothballed
    Battleships: 1 active

    Cruisers: 2 active awaiting to be scrapped
    Destroyers: 9 active
    Frigates: 10 active, 16 scrapped
    Patrol Boat: 2
    Assault Ships:30
    Submarines: 24 active, 16 nuclear-armed

    2.OSFC

    Space Dreadnoughts: 9 (all active)
    Battle Cruisers: 7 (5 active 4 in reserve)
    Star Frigates: 14 (10 active 3 updating 1 mothballed)
    Escort Ships: 22 ( all active)

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