Marksman T3 OSOK

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Lulz, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    [split] Commando and his nuke

    or a nerf to other t3s such as osok which has turned boss fights in notd into a joke
  2. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure about the math, but OSOK might need a little more nerfing Arcane.
    It's tier 3 takes off a heavy dose of HP, making the Sub Marksman's T3 a joke. The only thing the SMM's got going for him is speed if we were to compare the two.

    Now if we can do something like have the OSOK not be affected by any team buffs, it would be fine. And it still needs a nerf on the amount of damage dealt in T3. It really does make NOTD a cake walk when it comes to bosses.

    From what i've seen, its about Time vs Energy.
    If the AMM has full energy, the boss will die by the time the AMM has 0-100 energy left. I think the AMM does 60% of the entire dmg dealt to bosses.
  3. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    RE: Commando and his nuke

    another thought would be no % damage! increasing hps of bosses and mobs by squad rating is made pointless by % damage. The reason alpha is no longer feared and farmed so much is because with smite and osok both doing % damage the bosses are an absolute joke. % damage is the absolute worst thing that could of happened to this game =/. Now people farm 10-20k xp a month because theres just no challenge.
  4. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    RE: Commando and his nuke

    The issue is, without % damage OSOK is awful against bosses, to the point a medic with decent weapon will outdps him in the long run.
  5. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    RE: Commando and his nuke

    AP split the thread.

    How about making the energy cost different when used on bosses? As in like 40-50 on bosses? With maxed energy that's still 4-5 osoks which is a pretty huge chunk out of a boss's hp.
  6. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    RE: Commando and his nuke

    Unfortunetly that would have little to no effect. Most teams now a days run liberal amounts of energy regen effects. FA med, GS Chem, FS Engies, SS cons are almost always found in most teams. Recon in particualr since he is in all stories. To top it off, the Int bonus to regen + energy already speeds him up. It's 4-5 osoks only for a brand new MM who doesn't know about Intelligence or has any team support. For any pro team, it will still be 10+ osoks.
  7. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

    Here is what I have to say about Marksman

    1) The initial argument was that OSOK did not scale with difficulty. Why should it? No other classes’ skills scale with difficulty. Isn’t that the whole point? Higher SR or NM should make it harder.
    2)
    OSOK is in addition to standard weapon damage (boosted with anticipation and critical strike), so a medic will not even be close to out dpsing him.
    3) Outside of boss fights, Assassination’s other abilities are a joke once he hits T3. Why do you need anticipation and critical strike when you 1 shot everything anyway?

    So imo, Get rid of % damage and 1 hit kill. Buff up base damage of OSOK perhaps 300, 600, 1000. Return critical strike to x2 damage with OSOK. Leave +Barret damage, and give level 1 and 2 Barret damage as well.

    There was never any lack of people clamoring to play MM before the buff so clearly they didn’t think it was that under powered.
  8. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    I like the idea of returning the OSOK back to its original state with an additional buff to OSOK levels 1, 2 and 3, but you're wrong in the fact that there has been discussion about AMM needing a buff in the past.

    1. SMM was the the man before AMM buff. AMM was only seen useful in EC NM, but even then, SMM could be better with the bar + stinger or hmg, but the problem with SMM would lie in amount of ammo usage between the OpsMando and Rifleman so AMM seemed to suit EC NM better with its free mind bullets (OSOK)

    2. Having the OSOK one shot everything that is not heroic ties into its lore and to get rid of annoying immortals. So if we revert it back with the nice buff of 300/600/1000, im not sure what we plan on doing with things like immortals and our take on OSOK doing what it says, to one hit kill things.
  9. Lulz

    Lulz Well-Known Member

    amm was reguarly used in alphas also before the fort changed to its current incarnation. 1 amm could effectively stun lock all the mobs with proper use of mono.

    Btw im completely in favor MSluiters idea, remove the % damage and buff the osok. Making Talents scale with difficulty removes any point of increasing diffculty. The only other thing that scales is FS engy, and well that can't (nor should it) be helped.

    Also if this happens people might realize SMM is still the man
  10. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Increase the cooldown or remove the percentage damage (but not the instant-kill on non-heroics).
  11. Froblock

    Froblock Well-Known Member

    OSOK also has to be excluded from team buffs like Targetting Array or Penance.
    They buff by said amount; +40% , +100%.
    This is where we exploit that feature and get 20,000 damage out of osok, making every boss known to NOTD a joke.
    Alas Sub Marksman is not used in Alpha nor Apollo anymore.
  12. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    I would retain the instant kill for non heroics, increase the cooldown and lower the % again (right now it's 1.5 and 2%), drop it to like 0.5 and 1% respectively.

    I rather would not go back to flat damage OSOK, because to make it halfway viable against top end bosses, would require a base damage so high as to make anything lesser bosses a joke. Would need to be at least 1.5k or more against bosses to matter much. Even if we reduced the cooldown, 600 damage (the old osok damage) was pitiful, throw that against a 200k Queen or any boss over 100k, and 600 damage would let you chip in what? Maybe 5k? For a T3 on a DPS class... that's pretty sad, especially given the energy involved. 160 Energy gets me 8 overdrives, 3 nukes, 4 rounds of QA/Cloak, 5 stacks of nanosear, etc.

    MSlutier/Lulz do have a point against an ability perfectly scaling. On the other hand, most the abilities that are heavily used and relies on do scale as well, just not as perfectly. Surge/Adren, Bloodlust, Taunts, MC, Penance, etc.
  13. Miracle
    • Development Team
    • Community Leader

    Miracle NOTD Staff: Assistant of many things

    How about disabling skill damage increase for penance and weapons array, similar to how inception and march of the machine doesn't make shiva stronger? Killing the last boss of Apollo in less than 20 seconds seems a bit too much of a walk in the park.
  14. Archangel

    Archangel Well-Known Member

    I have to agree with this. Penence boost makes boss rape...rape. sure it would still do lots of damamge, but hades could at least get ~2more holes out to disrupt the team
  15. Ümlaut

    Ümlaut New Member

    I think smite lvl 3 does more damage than osok on a full health boss (at least, Perses). Seems so when i watch his health bar drop by spikes and i'm the one smiting.
  16. Archangel

    Archangel Well-Known Member

    smite does 30% damage to remaining health, so it would at early stages of boss fights. When the shit gets weaker smite does hardly noticeable damage. Osok does % damage to total health.
  17. Ümlaut

    Ümlaut New Member

    Know it, but still... isn't it way too much for a t1 skill on a tank, without any other skill to empower it? Even past 75% hp, it chews bosses badly.

    I just feel it's odd. And i would like to point it, as it parasites the pyro's tree (EU-wise, at least): it's currently better to forgot burn's existence and max smite before inferno (if you can ever attain it) so you destroy hordes and bosses in a epic way while slowing them. And you're still quite tanky with little med support.
  18. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    Smite does not do full damage to bosses, but yes, it is still significant. IIRC, it does like 1/8th the damage to bosses. Also OSOK functions just like Smite, % of remaining HP, not max HP, it just retains pretty decent damage from the base damage (800).

    Like I said earlier, easier to just up the cooldown or lower the % to mitigate any OP part of OSOK. Increasing the cooldown places a pretty effective ceiling on the damage, since there is no way in this game to bypass cooldowns. I would say, increase it 4 or even 5 seconds. Forces more thought in terms of mobs (you can only OSOK so fast) and also makes it so it doesn't completely plow through bosses.
  19. Archangel

    Archangel Well-Known Member

    Yet your wrong about osok, look it up next time. it is 1.5% of boss hp, aka the bottom part of the fraction. Ur right about smite, it does less damage to heroic but ur wrong that it does an 1/8, it does half, so 15% of remaining life.

    Now if osok DID do mitigating damage as hp of the boss got lower then yes that would make it much harder.
  20. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    Why not get funny with the percentage based damage of OSOK?

    For example give it a constant 50% chance to proc with use

    -OR-

    make it be 2x the percentage bonus of Critical Strike (Level 3 CS will give you 60% to proc the %damage)

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