Marksman T1s & Innate Skills

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by FlintLckwood, Apr 18, 2012.

  1. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    Maybe only time Amm use Quick aim is during muta waves in ec newb game, or after you miss your mono "accidentally". or before you get level 2 OSOK for huggers during base 1 waves. You might call it wasting ammo, but the person who got hugged can't shoot anyway. So its same deal. You might use 4~5 of level 1 OSOK to kill one hugger in nm game, but well, if thats how u manage your energy, im fine with that. or when u need to kill hugger really fast for teammates, which is very rare occasion.
  2. Lord NiteShade
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    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    That is more or less the ONLY time it outshines Mono. But, with good firepower, the mutas never get close enough to Mono anyways, not that they'd come bunched up enough anyways. By the time you're in vet, even crit m45 shots wont OHK mutas if the sr is high enough. Come NM it takes 2 crit hits.
  3. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    Only true use: Shotgun + Quick aim = $$$

    But why the fuck does the Assassin Marksman have the shotgun?
  4. Lord NiteShade
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    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    Its viable (very viable) on SubMM, again, supporting my only submm needs quick aim argument. Each shotgun shot only uses 1 concentrate, but has a massive area of effect and high base damage. It's also a fair slow weapon, so it has perfect natural synergy with concentrate.

    Assassin however, has no need. He can overlevel plenty with mono alone.
  5. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    Hmm, I kind of like the idea of scope as innate, it fits more with the fact the Marksman starts with a sniper rifle, and as a sniper expert, he could jury rig the scope onto other weapons. Also having QA as SMM fits his role as well, hes the hit and run kind of class, go stealth, unleash massive firepower, then disappear before enemy can react.
  6. Lord NiteShade
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    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    Removing a scope will always reset any zero you might have placed on it. This applies to any and all conventional scopes, that is to say those that rely on magnifying lenses. However, if the scope is electronic in nature, that is not necessarily the case. Either way I consider it an acceptable break from reality. Don't both trying to explain fitting the same "sniper scope" onto both a pistol and a stinger. More than likely the "scope" would be ocular equipment either in the marksman's armor or bionic upgrades to his very eyes themselves.

    Lastly, for Quick Aim, if it were to become the new T1 skill for Subtlety, how do we balance the numbers? Do we make it 100/200/300, because that forces to spend extra talents he previously did not have too. Or do we increase it's power in some way, and possibly throw off the SubMM's balance?
  7. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    I'd say increase the ending value of the speed.

    Of course, A Commando with Adrenaline stacked to 30 attacks faster than Quick-Aim, but that is because shit goes up fast when you multiply / divide. Divide 1 by 1.06 30 times(Adrenaline), and compare it to 1 divided by 4 (QA)

    Quick Aim should get a slight buff, seeing as while it was previously an innate, now it requires skill investment. Look at Demo's Sap skill; Most OP stun till its intended mechanic was put in place, and it was an innate.
  8. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    I would say that we could roll with the bionic upgrades, expert marksman of the future would probably accept such improvements, turing them into lethal snipers with any weapon. We have already stated that marksman are enhanced, they start with increased started range.

    Yes, making SMM spend more points then he did before would problematic, but I would really like to reduce the instances of tree picking one point on a t1 because it either sucks and just a pre req, or the entire utility of the skill is in one point.
  9. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
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    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    You could make level 1 Quick Aim 300% speed, and have each level up either decrease cost, or increase duration by 2 seconds. That's probly the only time 2 second sounds like a reasonable increase...
  10. Blaqk
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    Blaqk NOTD Staff: Bugs, Pugs, and Scruggs

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    25 Energy

    20 Energy

    15 Energy
  11. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    I've been out of town for a bit, which is why I've hardly participated in discussion. I've wanted scope in assassin because it synergized with Anticipation, an ability that relied upon attacking the enemy from a great distance. This also procced on OSOK, so I believed it to be much more appropriate on Ass instead of Sub. However, the I've looked over the other discussion that's taken place in my absence, and I'd have no problem with Scope being an innate and Quick Aim becoming a Sub skill. I still think that Crit is better off in Sub, and with Scope becoming an innate, I am much more interested in seeing Crit/Concentration changed.

    Also, as for Scope innate reasoning: half of the Marksman's face is optical lenses and shit. There's your scope. It automatically calibrates to every weapon to assist the marksman in doing that thing that he does.
  12. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    that and mono can't hit anything you personally cannot see. add scope to both trees and mono just got fixed. bug's been there since mono's creation.
  13. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    I agree with scope innate and switching conc and crits, then making conc affect osok (at a reduced level) for the reasons posted by others.
  14. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
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    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    Not a bug, just a flag that never got checked.
  15. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    I like the idea of a Scope Innate, Quick Aim as a Subtlety Tier 1, and moving Concentration to Assassination and Critical Strikes to Subtlety.

    Maybe for Quick Aim as a Talent have it as something like:

    Level 1: 300% attack speed, +25% while Cloaked. Reloading takes 15% longer.
    Level 2: 300% attack speed, +75% while Cloaked. Reloading takes 30% longer.
    Level 3: 300% attack speed, +150% while Cloaked. Reloading takes 45% longer.

    So it turns into something that isn't so akin to Suppressive Fire. Doesn't fuck with the Energy Balance for the SubMM. Makes them have to use it smartly instead of just jamming on it every time the talent cools down. And for their Talent Investment, they get to have additional ass kicking powers while doing their Master of Subtlety stuff.

    Yes, I want to see Concentration effect OSOK. I also want to see it effect Monofiliment Cartridge though. I would love to see it used in a manner where one Concentration stack would boost the damage for everything hit by Monofiliment Cartridge. Rather it not be a scenario where hitting 10 targets removes 10 stacks. Also gives the Assassination Marksman a reason to black out the tree, like an Order Flamethrower would want to do.

    Still let Critical Strikes effect OSOK and Monofiliment Cartridge damage. Gives the Assassin MM an obviously decent thing to cross over into once they are sufficiently blacked out to their satisfaction.

    Just crazy old man thoughts.
  16. Ramses II
    • Donator

    Ramses II Help, I can't change my title!

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    I think critical should always proc with osok. An osok IS a critical strike in the most blatant way possible. I think if critical is left in assassination tree it should just flat out add 10%/20%/30% damage to osok, and if moved to sub should add 5%/10%/15% damage to osok.
  17. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    Is that so?

    Then please have it checked Ability.
    Thank you. :p

    ================================================================================


    I maintain giving a (hesitant) +1 to Scope becoming the Marksman's innate.

    Hesitant because as ArcanePariah mentioned, NOTD is a game wherein sight blockers are a plenty and shared vision is turned off by default.
    These to me contribute to its challenge and fun factor/difficulty and do not need any changes.

    Considering that the Marksman class is both slow and squishy however, giving it that specific advantage won't be that bad.
    That and it's the class that's supposed to be able to have the clearest view of its targets as well.

    Also Kith's "my face is scopelandia"

    For balance, perhaps make the cone a tad narrower?
    I'm suggesting this as scope becoming an innate will become
    something that gives the class an offensive and defensive advantage without having to spend a talent point in it.
    In its current form, it is already considered by many as a talent you only need 1 point in to be very useful.

    ================================================================================


    Why is there a desire to rework concentration into the AssMM if OSOK is to be reworked into buffhood and turning it into an actual One shot one kill talent on its own (T3)? For even further buffing?

    With Conc + Mono as well. It's already quite the formidable tool for a team.
    3 second stun, 160 damage, no damage cap and we will be putting a potential +60% damage on it?

    I am confused. :huh:

    Concentration on AssMM will also be a NEAR CONSTANT BONUS if you consider
    1. he'll be using mostly slow firing weapons.
    2. his talents also have "windups" along with their respective cooldowns.

    There will be very minimal need to "wait" to recharge it because the assmm's nature will do most of it for you.

    Unless of course you like using rapid fire guns on the AssMM or use qaim a lot on it.



    IF Concentration being swapped with Critical Strike is really how it's going down, then
    +1
    only if crit is reworked into a talent that allows for a consistent damage increase on targets.

    As was mentioned, crits/luck based bonus damage does not fit in the Marksman.
    Relying on luck also does not jive well with the fact that in order to do his job, the Subtlety Marksman often needs to use
    cloak,
    quickaim,
    ammo,
    personal positioning and escape plan (shadowstep)
    which are quite a huge investment and requires more precision an skill in implementation than most classes.
    (Also, TASTE THE RAINBOW!)

    It's unlikely, but it can happen that during such a combo, the MM gets only 2 or even 0 crits from his barrage.



    ================================================================================
  18. Lord NiteShade
    • Wiki Founder
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    Lord NiteShade NOTD Staff: Wiki Founder/TeamSpeak Admin

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    In this case it's actually a flag to check off...

    [​IMG]
  19. ArcturusV

    ArcturusV New Member

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    So this theoretical Critical Strike buff you're talking about be something like...

    Critical Strikes, Passive.
    Increases the odds to get a critical strike 10/20/30%, if Flanking a target it increases it a further 10/20/30%. Critical Strikes deal double damage.

    :p

    Not saying we should necessarily do it. Just throwing out ideas so there is some form to the nebulous desire you mention. Focuses the SubMM from being Spam Fire to Ambush Fire as they need to set up the backstab condition in order to max their crit chance.
  20. Lyanden

    Lyanden Well-Known Member

    RE: Marksman Skill Discussion

    I'm almost tempted to suggest giving the SubMM a buffed up version of problem child. But no. We will NOT go down that dark path. XD

    Or won't we? DUN DUN DUUUUNNN

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