Marksman OSOK and T3

Discussion in 'NOTD Discussion' started by ArcanePariah, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. ArcanePariah
    • Development Team
    • Map Developer

    ArcanePariah Miracle Worker

    I believe we need to reexamine the power of the current Tier 3 of Assassination Marksman. Currently the damage scaling of it allow one class to single handley trivilize every end game boss. The difference between having an OSOKer and not is simply staggering. As it stands, even a baseline OSOKer (no energy help, no intelligence, no barret) can easily out damage any class for final bosses (Opcomm included). Now this is not a bad thing (every class should have its role), however one class should not take every final boss fight and automatically make it 10x easier.

    Simply put, OSOK level 3 is TOO efficient, far more then any other skill in the game. Most powerhouse skills in the game come with a drawback of some kind (long cooldowns, high energy costs, friendly fire), whereas Marksman Tier 3 has none of any kind. For instance, Opcomm can outdps it, however you must properly time Surgical Strike and Adrenaline and mange energy/HP with Borrowed Time. Nuke requires good aim as to maximize its effect and not to kill allies.

    I personally would like the cooldown of OSOK raised, in order to promote more skilled usage of it. Currently it is mindlessly spammed, and once you get Tier 3, REALLY spammed (anything stalker and above is instantly osoked). Another alternative is to either lower the % based damage, or remove the base damage (since the base damage means nothing outside bosses).

    Thoughts?
  2. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Removing the base damage of OSOK will make it unable to kill bosses, which goes against its name. Lowering the percentage damage will lower the impact per shot, and that bothers me, considering how loud and attention-drawing the skill is.

    That said, I'm for the cooldown being raised to 5 or maybe even 7 seconds.
  3. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    First off, I'm pretty sure the % Damage bonus gets affected by Ammo mods etc. Disable that. No Ammo Modifiers Increasing the % it deals. And change it from % max health, to % current health, so that part of its damage, decreases as the enemy's health decreases.
  4. Ryan III

    Ryan III Well-Known Member

    Maybe also give OSOK a "charge up" time along with the cooldown increase?
  5. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    It already has a cast time. Its something like ~.5 seconds.
  6. Miracle
    • Development Team
    • Community Leader

    Miracle NOTD Staff: Assistant of many things

    What about an increase in its energy cost to something like 30 to address the efficiency issue (maybe on top of increasing cooldown)? Being able to do more than 10000 damage to bosses for just 20 energy still seems too good like ArcanePariah mentioned.
  7. Maniac

    Maniac Member

    Just revert back to marksman before osok buff. Which was perfectly fine. Its enough to kill slasher with t3 but killing bigger than that in one shot is stupid. Adjust the damage of osok to one shot kill nm slashers when mm gets t3
  8. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Yeah, that won't help if there's SS and Engineer battery and all of that stuff present. Cooldown is the best way to go in this situation.

    It should be % current health.

    But it wasn't perfectly fine. It didn't live up to its name, and it was pretty massively overshadowed by standard DPS.
  9. Arturia

    Arturia Well-Known Member

    Alas, we go back to the time when Marksmen only OSOK enemies that will die when he shoots them with it, though mostly Agrons on the verge of death.
  10. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Also the whole "selfish play" thing where OSOK was used to kill wounded things rather than actually kill things to save ammo, natch.
  11. MSluiter

    MSluiter Member

    if the only issue is bosses just get rid of the % of boss health from T3..., or give it a flat +500 or something vs bosses.

    I also don't like the 1 hit kill of T3 or the huge barret buff to osok. but meh.

    edit:
    Also, what about having FMJ slightly reduce the cooldown or energy cost of OSOK. FMJ is sooo underutilized. It’s like the 1 mod that should be on the mm but is always tossed for damage boosting mods.
    MMs always want the damage mods, but outside of boss fights AP of HP on a mm is a waste.
  12. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    That's just a symptom of the FMJ's dps increase. In terms of straight DPS, FMJ is actually better than HP. However, because NOTD revolves around skill use and ammo conservation, HP is the superior choice because it increases damage, which makes skills more effective and conserves ammo better.
  13. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    An increasing cooldown with repetitive use can do the trick.

    Why?
    Since One Shot One Kill is a skill that gets spammed over and over and over with great effect and no drawbacks to its user it should get one.

    Current
    Bang! . . Bang! . . Bang! . . Bang! . . Bang! . . Bang! . . etc. . .

    Proposed
    Bang! . . Bang! . . Bang! . . . Bang! . . . . Bang! . . . . . Bang! . . . . . . etc. . .

    Reasoning
    As a single high power shot that can cripple pretty much anything it puts enormous strain on the rifle both overheating and shattering in the Marksman hands so shots should be carefully spaced between one another to be able to reach maximum efficiency. The benefit to this is that the first fired off shots will be the same as it is currently but going beyond that and the effects of repetitive use will become apparent. If you fire and wait a bit you can completely avoid this system working against you but the benefit is if you really need to use another OSOK in a bad situation you can.
  14. Zuriel

    Zuriel Well-Known Member

    Or, After 5 consecutive shots, a 1/2/3 second "cooling off" period is implemented. The cooling off period is determined by the game's mode and SR, and can be extended to 5 seconds if necessary for NM and obscenely high SR.

    Note: This effect takes place whenever 5 OSOKs have been used, and recurs every 5 shots no matter how long the time is between them. Kind of like the long HMG cooldown that balances its damage output.
  15. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    I'm in favor of something that requires good control on the users side to make the skill effective instead of a flat cooldown increase because that's going to punch everyone.

    Take for example One Shot One Kill has a 2 second cooldown at the moment and its going to get changed.

    Change
    -One Shot One Kill cooldown increased from 2 seconds to 4 seconds.
    This says outright that after using One Shot One Kill, you cannot use it again until the cooldown is complete.

    Change
    -One Shot One Kill gains a consecutive cooldown with use of 0.75 seconds with each use between intervals.
    This says you can use One Shot One Kill again after its 2 second cooldown - But should you?
    You just blew something to bits but should you go about doing it again so soon? In a way it does work like a cooldown increase but the player has some control over it.
  16. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    Hm you mean make it work like jumps
  17. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    I prefer my option because it's the shortest point between A and B, A being where we're at and B being an effective solution. There's a whole bunch of bullshit going on because of 1.5 in addition to the mountain of bugs and polishing that needed to be done before Blizzard fucked around with everything.

    I have zero issues with the cooldown being increased on a flat basis. Maybe it'll teach AssMMs to start using mono more often. Nobody has respect for it anymore.
  18. Reaper

    Reaper Moderator/The Crimsonrine

    A flat cooldown is indeed the lesser of evils at the moment with all the chaos.

    Mono is going to remain doomed among a majority of Marksman because it doesn't "compare" to One Shot One Kill. Even though the cooldown for OSOK will say to them "Find another way to keep your damage up", they will reply by saying "I'm not going to use Mono because it will drain my precious energies for OSOK when I can use it."
  19. Kith
    • Development Team
    • Designer

    Kith NOTD Staff: Anti-Fun Wizard Skeleton

    Which is of course stupid, but that's how it works. Very few are going to make the connection that a higher cooldown actually means more energy at their disposal.

    Thing is, with OSOK being used less frequently, they're going to have to kite more, and mono is ever-so-sweet for kiting.
  20. Ghost
    • Warden

    Ghost Warden

    I still feel reducing bonus dmg vs bosses is the better idea.
    Rather than %based damage on hp, just x2.5 dmg vs bosses. That means instead of 600 you deal 1500 per shot at lvl3 which is still good but not overpowering.
    Its marginally better than quickaim and doesn't consume ammo.
    We could always add a 0.7 second stun to it too if its too weak vs bosses.

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